DM certs that do not require a shop affiliation?
- Thread starter stuartv
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Hey Stuart,
Yes SDI requires a shop affiliation, so PADI, PSAI, RAID, UTD and afew others don't.
PADI is a quick and easy route. If you're up for a challenge and like things like neutral buoyancy, longhose, backplates and wings, rock bottom and balanced rig, UTD could be a solid choice. Instructor trainer facility in Rockland Maryland (submerged).
Yes SDI requires a shop affiliation, so PADI, PSAI, RAID, UTD and afew others don't.
PADI is a quick and easy route. If you're up for a challenge and like things like neutral buoyancy, longhose, backplates and wings, rock bottom and balanced rig, UTD could be a solid choice. Instructor trainer facility in Rockland Maryland (submerged).
SDI's recognition is global and growing. And SDI's growth has far surpassed PADI's. Plus, SDI is not currently up for sale (Providence Plans $1 Billion Sale of Diving Group PADI)
No, SDI does not require shop affiliation for DMs.....it does for instructors. To work as a DM you do need liability insurance either thru a shop, or your own.
But to really train as a DM find a place that will give a full training experience. Our DM candidates work their asses off. Yes, they do assist instructors with classes, yes they haul and fill tanks. We have them assist on our boats as deckhands and guides. We have them help in one of our shops. They work alongside some of the most experienced instructors around. And on top of that they develop perfect bulletproof skills and a depth of dive knowledge that goes far beyond the books of any agency. Not everyone in our program passes. It takes 3-6 months. Longer depending on the candidates time commitment. The few best end up working for us as crew or shop assistants.
It is also a heck of a lot of fun. I have as much a blast teaching our DM program as our students do taking it.
No, SDI does not require shop affiliation for DMs.....it does for instructors. To work as a DM you do need liability insurance either thru a shop, or your own.
But to really train as a DM find a place that will give a full training experience. Our DM candidates work their asses off. Yes, they do assist instructors with classes, yes they haul and fill tanks. We have them assist on our boats as deckhands and guides. We have them help in one of our shops. They work alongside some of the most experienced instructors around. And on top of that they develop perfect bulletproof skills and a depth of dive knowledge that goes far beyond the books of any agency. Not everyone in our program passes. It takes 3-6 months. Longer depending on the candidates time commitment. The few best end up working for us as crew or shop assistants.
It is also a heck of a lot of fun. I have as much a blast teaching our DM program as our students do taking it.
If you plan on Leading a trip as an Independent, then do it as a independent. no store involved..A LDS is not likely going to use an independent to run a store sponsored trip. The store owner or senior instructor would. A DM cannot conduct training dives, advance class or specialties. So why should they use you?
You say you do all the work..so you find and sell the trip to your clients, do not expect the LDS to do this for you. You negotiate with travel agent or resort. You put down the deposit for hotel and diving out of your pocket. You deal with airline reservations and be ready to put down a deposit out of your pocket for the group.What if unexpected expenses come up? There is risk on losing $$$$ out of pocket on this. Are you ready to pay out of your own pocket for this? Sorry, but I feel your plan is unrealistic . To run a trip you must be ready to be able to appease a disgruntled customer at times, negotiate with resort and or dive operator over possible problems. Not trying to disappoint you, but to be realistic a DM course, plus materials can cost upwards of $1,500 to $2,000 . Then member dues and insurance another $500 to $700. Better to either go on your own trip and enjoy diving, or become serious about it and go on to instructor and work for a LDS either full time or part time to achieve this goal. Even then remember the store owner or full time store instructor, or senior instructor will get usually first shot at any trip the store sponsors.
If this is for a club sponsored group trip same amount of risk may exist, but do not count on a LDS to be involved. What would be in this for the LDS.? The LDS is a business and for them to take a risk sponsoring a trip there must be financial reward in it for them.
Good idea to be able to have liability insurance for a club trip , but can be an expensive way to get there for you.
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and it is hard...if not impossible to make any profit as a DM. it's hard enough as an instructor and a shop!
Our DM students fall into several categories.
1) wanting the c-card to be able say "i'm a DM...look at me".
2) wanting to be a DM to bulletproof their skills and knowledge.
3) wanting to actually work as a DM for a shop or dive op
4) taking the first step towards being an instructor
5) wanting to be a DM to work privately as a guide and mentor
# 2 and 3 are the largest percentage of what we see. I discourage #1 because it's going to cost them serious $ and they will have to work their asses off. This group has our highest rate of fails. #4 has about 50% going on to instruct the remaining 50% end up as #2. #5 work their asses off then we find out they got real adult jobs when the DM thing does not work.
Our DM students fall into several categories.
1) wanting the c-card to be able say "i'm a DM...look at me".
2) wanting to be a DM to bulletproof their skills and knowledge.
3) wanting to actually work as a DM for a shop or dive op
4) taking the first step towards being an instructor
5) wanting to be a DM to work privately as a guide and mentor
# 2 and 3 are the largest percentage of what we see. I discourage #1 because it's going to cost them serious $ and they will have to work their asses off. This group has our highest rate of fails. #4 has about 50% going on to instruct the remaining 50% end up as #2. #5 work their asses off then we find out they got real adult jobs when the DM thing does not work.
To answer a few questions: NAUI does not require affiliation with shop (I am a NAUI CD-trainer) so an excellent choice.
As a shop owner (I am also one of those) selling a "shop" trip with an independant DM would be low on my list of things to do - we normally have staff that are more than willing to organize or go on the trip as the guide- since this is usually the most enjoyable part of our job I would have a mutiny on my hands if I gave the easy part of the trip to an "outsider". I believe most other shop owners would be in the same position. I would modify your plan a bit and take up the organization and selling of the trip on your own- start small and work your way up to larger trips. Some of the better DM programs actually teach you how to do this but now many. Ask around and question your instructor on what exactly your DM program includes and is there any business training in the course.
As a shop owner (I am also one of those) selling a "shop" trip with an independant DM would be low on my list of things to do - we normally have staff that are more than willing to organize or go on the trip as the guide- since this is usually the most enjoyable part of our job I would have a mutiny on my hands if I gave the easy part of the trip to an "outsider". I believe most other shop owners would be in the same position. I would modify your plan a bit and take up the organization and selling of the trip on your own- start small and work your way up to larger trips. Some of the better DM programs actually teach you how to do this but now many. Ask around and question your instructor on what exactly your DM program includes and is there any business training in the course.
Understandable, but as a RSTC member, recognition of RAID creds, coupled with a growing understanding of the agency's high teaching standards and the professional behavior it demands of its members, should help you in your stated activities.
@Wookie will be the first to tell you that we have some work to do on the PR front and building more complete community acceptance, but we are working on it... bottom line is that we are a work in progress.
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