I think DMs in resort locales probably do that kind of thing routinely. What may be more important than how many dives or how deep is how long, and how the ascents are managed.
Dizziness & Fatigue/Lethargy After Diving
- Thread starter SiC
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Dr Deco
Contributor
- Messages
- 2,384
- Reaction score
- 96
- # of dives
- I just don't log dives
Hello SiC:
Fatigue and DCS
This is a commonly discussed problem and is reported to occur following decompression. Laboratory observations at the US Air Force High Altitude laboratory do not indicate an association between fatigue and Doppler-detectable gas bubbles. Thus, I suspect that “silent DCS” is not the cause of this malady, perceived or real. It is nice thought and very appealing but not confirmed in laboratory studies.
Diving, DCS and Fatigue
That seems to me [and others] that this is a lot of diving. I could imagine that anyone would feel fatigued after such a continuous, daily ordeal. I am suspicious of an etiology of DCS for several reasons:
1. For a diver on a recreational, NDL schedule, one has a low “dose” of nitrogen and is far from DCS probability.
2. Unless one is near their DCS/no DCS limit (with respect to nitrogen “dose”
, it is unlikely that DCS (silent or otherwise) would appear time after time, day after day.
3. Studies by DAN (reference below) have found that Doppler-detectable gas bubbles in divers decrease as the dive week progresses. I would expect that a DCS problem would abate. [Such “acclimatization” was found more than a century ago in compressed-air tunnel workers.] This problem has shown no signs of amelioration with time, and I suspect that it is connected with physical stress.
Of course, it is possible that diving is a “red herring” and simply an epiphenomenon. In such case, that is another underlying, organic cause. [For example, it is possible to have multiple sclerosis (heaven forbid), and have it exacerbated by activity in the warm sun.]
“Doc, it hurts when I do this.”
The joke goes that the physician replies, “Then don’t do that.” I would recommend [as did other] that you cease diving and find if the problem abates. It might also then be advantageous to get an examination by a specialist in internal medicine or neurology to see if that is underlying disease.
Dr Deco :doctor:
References
Dunford RG, Vann RD, Gerth WA, Pieper CF, Huggins K, Wacholtz C, Bennett PB.
The incidence of venous gas emboli in recreational diving. Undersea Hyperb Med. 2002 ;29(4):247-59.
Fatigue and DCS
This is a commonly discussed problem and is reported to occur following decompression. Laboratory observations at the US Air Force High Altitude laboratory do not indicate an association between fatigue and Doppler-detectable gas bubbles. Thus, I suspect that “silent DCS” is not the cause of this malady, perceived or real. It is nice thought and very appealing but not confirmed in laboratory studies.
Diving, DCS and Fatigue
That seems to me [and others] that this is a lot of diving. I could imagine that anyone would feel fatigued after such a continuous, daily ordeal. I am suspicious of an etiology of DCS for several reasons:
1. For a diver on a recreational, NDL schedule, one has a low “dose” of nitrogen and is far from DCS probability.
2. Unless one is near their DCS/no DCS limit (with respect to nitrogen “dose”
, it is unlikely that DCS (silent or otherwise) would appear time after time, day after day.3. Studies by DAN (reference below) have found that Doppler-detectable gas bubbles in divers decrease as the dive week progresses. I would expect that a DCS problem would abate. [Such “acclimatization” was found more than a century ago in compressed-air tunnel workers.] This problem has shown no signs of amelioration with time, and I suspect that it is connected with physical stress.
Of course, it is possible that diving is a “red herring” and simply an epiphenomenon. In such case, that is another underlying, organic cause. [For example, it is possible to have multiple sclerosis (heaven forbid), and have it exacerbated by activity in the warm sun.]
“Doc, it hurts when I do this.”
The joke goes that the physician replies, “Then don’t do that.” I would recommend [as did other] that you cease diving and find if the problem abates. It might also then be advantageous to get an examination by a specialist in internal medicine or neurology to see if that is underlying disease.
Dr Deco :doctor:
References
Dunford RG, Vann RD, Gerth WA, Pieper CF, Huggins K, Wacholtz C, Bennett PB.
The incidence of venous gas emboli in recreational diving. Undersea Hyperb Med. 2002 ;29(4):247-59.
fisherdvm
Contributor
- Messages
- 3,577
- Reaction score
- 52
- # of dives
- 200 - 499
Could it just be a case of "sea leg". Perhaps the ride out to the sites required going through some rough waves, and despite being a conditioned athlete, you are just worn out from your leg and spine muscle in maintaining balance on the trip, explaining the tiredness.
Then the postural hypotension - that's interesting. I wonder if a tight semi dry suit neck or a tight drysuit neck could be compressing your carotid artery sinuses too much, causing them to lose their sensitivity temporarily afterward.
My sister had several bouts of postural hypotension enough to cause a few black out episodes. Extensive work up revealed a missing carotid artery and some abnormal arterial blood flow to the brain. Apparently, she is more prone to postural changes than other.
Then the postural hypotension - that's interesting. I wonder if a tight semi dry suit neck or a tight drysuit neck could be compressing your carotid artery sinuses too much, causing them to lose their sensitivity temporarily afterward.
My sister had several bouts of postural hypotension enough to cause a few black out episodes. Extensive work up revealed a missing carotid artery and some abnormal arterial blood flow to the brain. Apparently, she is more prone to postural changes than other.
Thanks for all the replies guys. Very interesting reading and good food for thought. I've got a potential new angle on this, so you might want to shoot ahead a few paragraphs. If not, then in reply to some of the Q's:
1) DM, male.
2) Not all my days are as "gruelling" as that. We generally dive within the tables, and some days my profile might be 25m, 18m, 12m. Sometimes I dive 6 days p/w, but sometimes just 5. However, it's very cruisey. Calm warm waters, no pressure.
3) Ascents are usually pretty slow - c. 6-9m per minute, though sometimes this isn't possible (e.g. with "intros") - but they're never at stupid speeds. With a 31-40m dive we do 3 safety stops. These are 2 mins at 9m; 3 mins at 6m; 2 mins at 3m. With a dive of less than 30m, we miss out the 9m stop and just do the other 2. It feels very safe and conservative to me?
4) The onset came after a few nights partying. Doh!
5) Drinking loads of water as a precaution, not because of a big thirst (I had considered type 2 diabetes).
I've also (ahem) been needing to pee very suddenly, both in the water and soon after diving. I put this down to very large amounts of precautionary fluids.
Anyway, this morning I had symptoms despite doing no diving yesterday, which got me thinking along the "non-diving related" lines and then this afternoon...
...I was in the shower. As usual. That's the shower that I'm in nearly every day, right after diving, sometimes for 10 mins at a time; which sometimes smells of gas a bit; which I noticed today doesn't have a flue; and which has some sooty marks around the burner area...
Hmmm! So I'm thinking maybe a little sleepy sandwich of normal diving fatigue, with extra helpings of Carbon Monoxide? The symptoms are similar and it would explain a lot? I think it's LPG.
So, the first thing I'm going to do is stay out of that shower for a few days and see what happens. If not, then I guess it's a physician and some time off.
I'll keep you posted ("resolution" being the key part of any narrative) and in the meantime thanks again for taking the time to answer.
Cheers guys
1) DM, male.
2) Not all my days are as "gruelling" as that. We generally dive within the tables, and some days my profile might be 25m, 18m, 12m. Sometimes I dive 6 days p/w, but sometimes just 5. However, it's very cruisey. Calm warm waters, no pressure.
3) Ascents are usually pretty slow - c. 6-9m per minute, though sometimes this isn't possible (e.g. with "intros") - but they're never at stupid speeds. With a 31-40m dive we do 3 safety stops. These are 2 mins at 9m; 3 mins at 6m; 2 mins at 3m. With a dive of less than 30m, we miss out the 9m stop and just do the other 2. It feels very safe and conservative to me?
4) The onset came after a few nights partying. Doh!
5) Drinking loads of water as a precaution, not because of a big thirst (I had considered type 2 diabetes).
I've also (ahem) been needing to pee very suddenly, both in the water and soon after diving. I put this down to very large amounts of precautionary fluids.
Anyway, this morning I had symptoms despite doing no diving yesterday, which got me thinking along the "non-diving related" lines and then this afternoon...
...I was in the shower. As usual. That's the shower that I'm in nearly every day, right after diving, sometimes for 10 mins at a time; which sometimes smells of gas a bit; which I noticed today doesn't have a flue; and which has some sooty marks around the burner area...
Hmmm! So I'm thinking maybe a little sleepy sandwich of normal diving fatigue, with extra helpings of Carbon Monoxide? The symptoms are similar and it would explain a lot? I think it's LPG.
So, the first thing I'm going to do is stay out of that shower for a few days and see what happens. If not, then I guess it's a physician and some time off.
I'll keep you posted ("resolution" being the key part of any narrative) and in the meantime thanks again for taking the time to answer.
Cheers guys
Dr Deco
Contributor
- Messages
- 2,384
- Reaction score
- 96
- # of dives
- I just don't log dives
Hello SiC :
I would definitely recommend a break in the dive routine as did several others. One can then determine just what changes occur, if any. The observation about the heater is very interesting.
I wish you all the best!
Dr Deco :doctor:
I would definitely recommend a break in the dive routine as did several others. One can then determine just what changes occur, if any. The observation about the heater is very interesting.
I wish you all the best!
Dr Deco :doctor:
Hi again.
So after 3 days of no shower, and 1.5 days of no diving, no change. Felt lethargic even on my day-and-a-half off, despite it being 24hrs+ since a couple of pretty light dives (20m max).
Just had my BP tested and it was 110/60. I'm going to ask around so see if that's low or not.
So I'm still checking out the options and feeling my way.
I'm still thinking more along the lines of a non-diving cause (or is that wishful thinking?). I know a break seems inevitable, but it'll take some willpower!!
Thanks again for all the contrib's.
So after 3 days of no shower, and 1.5 days of no diving, no change. Felt lethargic even on my day-and-a-half off, despite it being 24hrs+ since a couple of pretty light dives (20m max).
Just had my BP tested and it was 110/60. I'm going to ask around so see if that's low or not.
So I'm still checking out the options and feeling my way.
I'm still thinking more along the lines of a non-diving cause (or is that wishful thinking?). I know a break seems inevitable, but it'll take some willpower!!
Thanks again for all the contrib's.
shakeybrainsurgeon
Contributor
bp is fine, but you need to see a physician, and get checked for anemia, thyroid problems, type II diabetes, etc. Simple bloodwork, urinanalysis and physical exam by competent professional will do more than anyone on-line can offer
What shakeybrainsurgeon said.
Hi.
Yeh, all good stuff. Thanks for the input.
Still trying a few different things and seeing if there's any change. Skipping the siestas, trying Beconase in case it's some sort of sinusitus, avoiding the shower etc etc. I'm more and more thinking it's non-dive-related. Or if there is a connection, then it's something else exacerbating it. E.g. lifting tanks afterwards in hot humid weather (I'm a pasty Englishman) or an allergy or whatever.
I should just say, that I'm in the middle of the Pacific and MD's/GP's are a bit thin on the ground and expensive. Hence my posting on the web rather than just popping to the doc's!
I can almost hear some of you saying "er, why doesn't he just go and get a quick blood test"
I guess you gotta expect a few things to start dropping off/malfunctioning when you reach your mid-30s...
Yeh, all good stuff. Thanks for the input.
Still trying a few different things and seeing if there's any change. Skipping the siestas, trying Beconase in case it's some sort of sinusitus, avoiding the shower etc etc. I'm more and more thinking it's non-dive-related. Or if there is a connection, then it's something else exacerbating it. E.g. lifting tanks afterwards in hot humid weather (I'm a pasty Englishman) or an allergy or whatever.
I should just say, that I'm in the middle of the Pacific and MD's/GP's are a bit thin on the ground and expensive. Hence my posting on the web rather than just popping to the doc's!
I can almost hear some of you saying "er, why doesn't he just go and get a quick blood test"
I guess you gotta expect a few things to start dropping off/malfunctioning when you reach your mid-30s...
Similar threads
