DIY Bungied Second - please post a pic

[DevonDiver]

I read mention of a diver death due to a non-detachable bungee earlier in the thread. Does anyone have details?

The details of the incident previously mentioned are not in the public domain, but I do have direct knowledge of them. Sadly I am not at liberty to discuss the specifics. I mentioned this as a means to substantiate the risks involved and explain my views on the matter, but sadly, it was pulled from the thread...

If you're willing to extend a little trust and accept that I'm not prone to posting random inaccuracies or fantasies, then please just accept that an incident happened quite recently that involved an entangled bungee necklace and ultimately spiralled out of control to cause 2 technical diver deaths. The issue of the bungee necklace was a link in an incident chain that could have been broken, had a different approach been taken. I know that incident analysis conducted by those knowledgeable of the facts has caused several experienced divers to re-think their approach to bungee necklace - especially in regard to the permanent attachment of the bungee.

I'd always assumed that the bungee was not higher risk than any other entanglement.

It isn't. However, the bungee necklace tends to be co-located with the back-up reg hose. Cutting away such an entanglement, especially under adverse conditions and stress, isn't a risk-free procedure. A mistake in the cutting procedure would be very serious. If this were a purely hypothetical assumption, then I'd think I was nit-picking - but it isn't.

If we're debating on the basis of 'optimum' then we consider the nit-picking points. If we're happy to accept 'adequate', then virtually any solution would be acceptable.

Given that there is virtually no difference in cost or effort to construct one type of bungee over another, then why not select the 'optimum' over the 'adequate'?

My missus would never use a bungee that could detach due to an incident where her primary was ripped out and the secondary was unreachable.

Not sure how a necklace bungeed back-up becomes 'unreachable'? Again, the use of effective knotting to produce an effectively secure loop prevents accidental dropping, but retains the option of deliberate disengagement. Good kit handling and management should take care of the rest. If the regulator drops from the loop, then the loop is wrong - not the concept.

 

[Jax]

I actually use two different systems - one set uses the DiveRite bungee necklace as seen here ->
Regulator Accessories - Dive Gear Express

The other set uses the bungee tied under the mouthpiece zip tie that others have shown.

I read mention of a diver death due to a non-detachable bungee earlier in the thread. Does anyone have details? I'd always assumed that the bungee was not higher risk than any other entanglement. My missus would never use a bungee that could detach due to an incident where her primary was ripped out and the secondary was unreachable. I'm of the same belief currently but am interested in the above story.

Not an experienced diver here, but here's a look from an engineering point of view:

Go take a look at the pictures / videos of the Concordia divers. Everywhere are "things" which, if the diver went too close, the bungee could snag and keep you. Say, you duck under some heavy cables in a passageway, and a bent cable hooks the bungee. I'm thinking an instance where the bungee can separate into a single line, as Peter Guy's does, is a pretty good idea.

I'm going to look at my setup pretty hard.

 

[Jax]

It isn't. However, the bungee necklace tends to be co-located with the back-up reg hose. Cutting away such an entanglement, especially under adverse conditions and stress, isn't a risk-free procedure. A mistake in the cutting procedure would be very serious.

This is one of the reasons I have three different cutting instruments with me - Scissors, knive, and Z-knife on the shoulder, above the top D-ring. If one cannot reach one of those, WTH are you doing in that passage???

 

[halocline]

Yes... it's splitting hairs... but isn't that what we do at a technical level to ensure utmost safety?

Possibly, but its DEFINITELY what we do on SB.

 

[idive2]

I did not like the rubber ones at all from the dive shop. I considered the zip tie method but kinda liked the option to slip the reg out if desired.
I basically made a loop at one end that allowed the mouthpiece to fit snugly in then came around with long end and tied off to other side of loop.
I've used it on two different regs with no problems. This is not my use every day reg but do use it for some shore diving.

 

[Peter Guy]

DD -- I've used both the double knot loop system and "my" version and, to me, each have issues. I found that the double knot system had a tendency to come loose and let the 2nd stage fall out leaving me with a cord around my neck and a 2nd stage flopping somewhere and then putting it back with dry gloves was a real PITA. OTOH, yes, it does take more force to get "my" version to come off but that is a plus to me and where I dive.

I guess it just comes down to what risks are more desired to be avoided -- but I agree the bungie should be able to be freed without pulling off the mouthpiece or needing a cutting implement. (BTW, I use 1/8 inch bungie so any cutting device should work with no issue.)

 

[fisheater]

I've heard these stories of knotted necklaces coming loose and, while I believe them, I have a hard time understanding them.

My knotted necklace has never loosened, even though it's been rugged on many times (forgot to take it off my neck or the loop entangled when walking past, etc.)

I suspect that the explanation may lie in the stress I put in the bungie when I tied the knots. Those knots aren't going to loosen by themselves after I pulled them very tight.


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[dumpsterDiver]

DD -- I've used both the double knot loop system and "my" version and, to me, each have issues.

I found that the double knot system had a tendency to come loose and let the 2nd stage fall out leaving me with a cord around my neck and a 2nd stage flopping somewhere and then putting it back with dry gloves was a real PITA. OTOH, yes, it does take more force to get "my" version to come off but that is a plus to me and where I dive.

I guess it just comes down to what risks are more desired to be avoided -- but I agree the bungie should be able to be freed without pulling off the mouthpiece or needing a cutting implement. (BTW, I use 1/8 inch bungie so any cutting device should work with no issue.)

Well then get your butt to a commercial truck tire store, dig in their dumpster, pull out a nice inner tube and cut the bungi with a proper hole so that the reg will NOT fall out... Also, i have an old reg, and the mouth piece sticks out from the tube it is attached to, forming a very distict lip to prevent it from slipping off.. exactly like the photo is a post above... I have no idea why he would not slide the necklace further over the reg and past the mouth piece so as to use the lip to make it more secure.

The thickness of the rubber and the width of my lanyard in the vicinity of the mouth piece makes it very secure, if you cut the hole right.

 

[DevonDiver]

DD -- I've used both the double knot loop system and "my" version and, to me, each have issues. I found that the double knot system had a tendency to come loose and let the 2nd stage fall out leaving me with a cord around my neck and a 2nd stage flopping somewhere and then putting it back with dry gloves was a real PITA.

I put a zip-tie around each knot of the loop, it never, ever comes off accidentally (even when using sidemount - with all the tugs, jerks and adjustments that go on with the short hose/left side tank position etc).

1) Cut the bungee length so that it's sized to snuggly fit around the neck (second stage just under the chin - not down on the chest), with a 2" overlap.
2) Tie two floating knots to create the loop.
3) Put the loop over the mouthpiece and pull it tight, to fit securely.
4) Remove the mouthpiece from the loop and use 2 zip-ties to 'lock-off' the loop and prevent future slipping.

I'll be reunited with my kit on Monday.. so will take some photos to clarify then.

 

[Peter Guy]

DD "1" and "2" -- thanks for your advice but, honestly, I'll keep my gear the way it is -- which is the way I like it!