Diving without Certification (A RANT)

[pasley]

No, I don't think you are making too big a deal of this.

Just a few points.
1. Yes, originally people dove, flew airplanes and drove cars all without certification. But after many accidents we evolved and made certification/license the requirement. Los Angles County in California passed a law requireing certification in response to the number of dive accidents. I will also point out that back then you did not have SPG and did not know nearly what we do today about diving and cigeretts did not cause cancer. We know more now than then and certification is just smart. Yes accidents still occur but at least you have a fighting chance of not doing something stupid because you did not know.
2. Is the "tech diver" a dive insturctor? If so then he is probably doing a discover scuba. If not, he should not be doing what he is doing
3. Dawin cleans the gene pool from time to time.

 

[Thalassamania]

"Mind you that non instructor rated person with exceptionl competence is very rarely seen..."

Instructor-rated persons of exceptional competence are also very rarely seen, but I know that they exist, though not to any extent more significant than among the population of highly experienced non-instructors. There may even be exceptionally competent divers among those instructors who breezed through several levels of certification, ultimately to instructor grade, after only a year or so and a couple of hundred dives, but I doubt it very much. I'm reasonably sure they don't exist. The whole concept is silly, except to those who profit financially from selling the myth.

Let me assure you that they do exist, and there are more out there with the capacity than you'd believe. I used to train about 40 new divers a year. Three-fourths were more interested in science and diving than in teaching, but every year I recruited about ten into our training cadre, and they did very, very well. I submit that it is more a failure on the part of the existing training programs, short and superficial as they tend to be, to raise the student to that level, than it is the student's inherent inability to perform at that level.

 

[beanojones]

Most divers I know in Hawaii are not certified, except if they became that way specifically for work. There are two sets of rules, and some people have to show cert cards, and others just pay for fills.

There really is not very much required to do a Discover Scuba, even in open water. You have to teach someone to clear their mask, do a reg recovery, and inflate their BCD

Actually like guage reading, BCD control is not a required part of the program.

 

[theduckguru]

Once upon a time, there were two brothers. No one told them how to build an airplane or how to fly one if they were able to invent one. Neither died in an aircraft accident.

 

[Hawkwood]

...Actually like guage reading, BCD control is not a required part of the program.

Actually it is, it depends on where the DSD is being conducted. It is required for the pool. I truly hate it when blanket generalities are espoused.

Inflate and deflate a BCD at the surface is a requirement for the pool experience.

Since some folks who are discussing the PADI DSD requirements don't seem to know what they are, here they are:

• Breathing underwater
• Regulator clearing
• Regulator recovery
• Mask clearing
• Equalization techniques
• Inflate and deflate a BCD at the surface

Exception: Only BCD inflation/deflation required for pool-only experience.

 

[faze]

Think the nature of the dive is vital - if it was a "try" dive in suitable conditions or a "full" dive (for want of a better term). As the most dangerous thing in the water appears to be other divers I would be surprised if an experienced diver (especially a Tech) would put himself at such risk taking a complete novice unless under very restricted criteria.

On a different point it's worth noting that the stats regarding death and injury appear to show that the likelihood of incident is significantly higher amongst non trained divers.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Once upon a time, there were two brothers. No one told them how to build an airplane or how to fly one if they were able to invent one. Neither died in an aircraft accident.

Just a side note, in 1908 Orville crashed and was severely injured. His passenger died. It was the first recorded airplane fatality.

 

[tomfcrist]

Just a side note, in 1908 Orville crashed and was severely injured. His passenger died. It was the first recorded airplane fatality.

His airplane was also made out of toothpicks and toilet paper.......glad he didnt smoke in flight

As a not so side note, his propeller fell off the airplane causing the crash. Pretty sure it had nothing to do with him being "trained" as a pilot.......as an engineer......Maybe. Dude spent over a month in the hospital either way.

 

[beanojones]

Actually it is, it depends on where the DSD is being conducted. It is required for the pool. I truly hate it when blanket generalities are espoused.

No it's not. We teach them how to inflate their BCD at the surface for safety reasons, but the flip chart clearly explains that the instructor will manage it underwater. (Go ahead, read it. I just read it to people yesterday.)

I truly hate it when people get snarky needlessly. It's just a nice bonus when they are wrong, too.

(Why are you quoting the instructor manual in the New Divers Forum, anyway? I mean it's nice you did, because it clearly indicates that you got it wrong, but New Divers Forum is not the place to quote the instructor manual.)

Here's the relevant Flip Chart page for ya:

 

[Hawkwood]

Beanojones - you were the one who stated: "BCD control is not a required part of the program"

Clearly from the 2012 Instructor Manual it is part of the program - QUOTE:

"• Inflate and deflate a BCD at the surface

Exception: Only BCD inflation/deflation required for pool-only experience."

As I stated, it depend on where the DSD is taking place. If you wish to nit-pick what defines "BCD control", that is another point of discussion. I said nothing about what is done underwater. You were the one who said BCD control was not a required part of the program. If you had been clear and said BCD control underwater was not part of the program we would not be having this discussion at all.

Just what the heck is wrong with quoting the IM to another instructor - regardless of the Forum. Is it some time of secret tome? Did I not get the memo?

Bill