Diving with no O2 kit

[AdivingBel]

To the op,
How well do you know these guys? Are they reasonable, responsible adults? Are they going to do a check out dive somewhere controlled to make sure their gear works before heading out on the SS Minnow? If the answers are all positive, and you stick to the conservative plan, then sounds like fun. Have a ball. I wouldn't worry too much about the O2. It would be nice to have if you guys get serious and start diving a lot from the boat. The entire island of Bonaire makes a living off folks loading up trucks and heading off to the hinterlands to dive without an O2 tank in sight. All IMHO.
BTW, where you gonna dive? I get to FL occasionally. I've got gas money.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Basic Scuba seems like the right place, they're talking about relatively shallow dives <50ft. The question was about having an O2 kit on the boat for emergencies, nothing was said about decompression dives.

If emergency equipment is the concern, consider Both oxygen and an AED (automated external defibrillator). Both may need to be used in several types of diving emergencies.

Oxygen is normally associated with decompression sickness, but may also be needed for drowning, air embolism and carbon monoxide poisoning (contaminated compressed air). If possible, if you carry oxygen, get some training on its use of diving emergencies. Here is a link to some training in the use of oxygen.

https://www.research.usf.edu/dric/diving/docs/oxygen-first-aid-scuba.pdf

The AED would be useful for heart problems.

If there is any doubt, or if the question comes into your mind, go for the O2. My thoughts above were perhaps an overview-reaction because of my own unique diving here on the Clackamas River, where I dive under paramedic lifeguards. I was remembering back to the beginning times of diving in the 1960s, where oxygen wasn't even an option and we simply enjoyed breathing underwater.

SeaRat

 

[Darghu]

AED on boat ? Can you elaborate about it ? I read the slide 48
but I learnt that victim must be dry (best we can) and no water on the floor.
how is that possible on the boat ? (at least a "decent" boat size).

 

[Patoux01]

Never mind the O2 unless you think the dives pose dcs risks, such as dives on a wall where loss of buoyancy control could lead to dcs

AFAIK, in France, and I suspect many other countries, O2 is mandatory for dive ops, even when there is "no dcs risks". Many people believe it applies to everyone there, and they'll also call me insane for not having O2 and not seeing any need for it in most situations.

As for me, I wouldn't do the diving, but that's because I hate boats and consider them a nuisance. Diving without O2 is fine on my watch... Until there's deco diving for which the deco asks for O2 (eg > 15-20 minutes on back gas), but then the deco tank will double as "emergency oxygen".

 

[Darghu]

Exact, in France, if you dive with a LDS / Club they must have a O2 Kit and if you dive without them, friends it is up to you. If nothing happen good, if something happen this can be used against you 'cause of lack of security/rescue equipements. Anyway even if you might not use your O2 Kit it worth to have it. But I guess if you often dive with the same friends you can deal something each one give 100 $ and it's available for anyone.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

AED on boat ? Can you elaborate about it ? I read the slide 48
but I learnt that victim must be dry (best we can) and no water on the floor.
how is that possible on the boat ? (at least a "decent" boat size).

You know, that is a great question, and I don't have a ready answer. So I'll try going through some mental gymnastics (reasoning) and see if that helps.

The reason to "stand back" is so that no onlooker or rescuer would also be shocked when the victim is shocked by the AED. If the victim is in water, and there is a shock, that shock will still go across the heart, but may exit out the wet skin on the back, possibly resulting in a burn. But the victim is only shocked when the heart rhythm is "shockable." Without the shock, the victim will die due to ventricular fibrillation or another shockable heart abnormality. With the shock on a wet surface, there is a burn possibility for the victim, but the victim probably won't care that much because he/she is alive.

But the greater hazard is that there is a potential for a bystander/rescuer to also be shocked. So the command "Clear" may have to be enforced to some distance from the victim.

I therefore don't see why an AED could not be used on a boat; it would simply need a slightly altered procedure. The victim's skin would need to be dried off, so that the pads could adhere too. But towels should be able to do that.

Now, if anyone from DAN or another organization has better information, we'd like to hear it.

SeaRat

 

[Darghu]

Of course I do understand that point, but what about water ? water is kinda everywhere when a diver or a boat pilot is around.
This also depend of how long to put the victim out of water, remove his drysuit/wetsuit to put electrod, and this reduce badly chance of survive.

I asked more infos if a AED would be usefull (of course it is) but it depends a lot of situation:
- victim must be shockable ?
- victim must be dry (best we can)
- water / space issue
- drysuit/wetsuit removal
- high risk "shocked" rescue due to water
- how many divers are around during the rescue ?

A "underwater" cardiac arrest (diver victims) is not the same of a "normal' cardiac arrest.

How do you perform AED on a boat ? Except a decent size boat to not say a big boat.

After that. I was told that it not worth to buy a AED, if you got 3 000 $ to put into it better to take extra rescue course/training, extra diving training, extra days focused on rescue, buy additionnal O2 Kit or just keep a good healthy fitness (Sport/Meal). BUT if you are able to get a decent place to put a cardiac victim and perform a AED in short time why not, this also means a good boat pilot / buddy reactions.

 

[HantsDiver]

Of course I do understand that point, but what about water ? water is kinda everywhere when a diver or a boat pilot is around.
This also depend of how long to put the victim out of water, remove his drysuit/wetsuit to put electrod, and this reduce badly chance of survive.

I asked more infos if a AED would be usefull (of course it is) but it depends a lot of situation:
- victim is shockable ?
- victim is dry (best we can)
- water / space issue
- drysuit/wetsuit removal
- high risk "shocked" rescue due to water

How do you perform AED on a boat ? Except a decent size boat to not say a big boat.

AED's can be used on a boat.

Alert Diver | Are AEDs Safe in Wet Environments?

That should cover it.

 

[Darghu]

AED's can be used on a boat.

Alert Diver | Are AEDs Safe in Wet Environments?

That should cover it.

Sure of course.
"Early defibrillation " it depends a lot of buddy reactivity. If it takes 5 min just to get into the boat + extra minutes to remove weet/drysuit, dry a bit to have less water why not (chances are still reduced). 1min is kinda long in that situation.

 

[HantsDiver]

Sure of course.
"Early defibrillation " it depends a lot of buddy reactivity. If it takes 5 min just to get into the boat + extra minutes to remove weet/drysuit, dry a bit to have less water why not (chances are still reduced). 1min is kinda long in that situation.

How long would it take if you didn't have an AED on the boat?

I'd rather have someone try and save my life when they could than them not bother as they think it's too late.