Diving regulations and such....

[Kunk35]

I realize this probably varies by state, but I'm finding it very difficult to find specific information on the actual diving regulations concerning dive flags, distances, boating regulations with regard to diving etc...

I know if you ask a group of divers, there will be several different answers as to how far away from a dive flag boats are supposed to operate. Another thing I've wondered is, whether or not it is legal to tow a dive flag while you are diving. Some say yes, others say no, but I have yet to find it addressed in any official state publication of laws and regulations. And I can't find anything specifying how close to the dive flag we lawfully have to remain while we are diving.

On boat-ed.com it says in Oklahoma boats must stay 150' from dive flags.

On the Texas Parks and Wildlife website I found this reference to diving:

It is unlawful to:

12. Operate within 50 feet of a "Diver Down Flag" or operate a boat within 150 feet of a "Diver Down Flag" except at headway/steerage speed.

So, is that saying boats have to stay 50' from our dive flag or 150'? And it reads like they can be within 150', but they can't be going fast. So when we get our hand and arm chopped up by their props, they won't be that far away when they have to turn around and pluck our bleeding bodies out of the water. It's no wonder boats in lakes a vast majority of the time pay little regard to our dive flags. It is very difficult to find the rules when you are actually looking for them, let alone bubba in his fishing boat that couldn't care less.

Boaters have every right to be in the lakes the same as we do. I'm just trying to figure out why there seems to be an issue almost every time I put my flag out and there are boaters in the area. Like Timeliner has said in the past, they are idiot magnets and actually attract them like ants to sugar. I'm sure the fact that there just aren't many people that dive in Texoma, the boaters just don't know what to think.

What issues has everyone else had with boats and dive flags?

 

[covediver]

What issues has everyone else had with boats and dive flags?

1. Personal water craft using it as a bouy that marked the turn around point of the course for their races.

2. Boater thinking it was a bouy to tie off to for anchoring (he wondered why he drifted).

3. Surfer pulling it up thinking it was attached to a crab or lobster pot.

4. Yatchie telling me that a dive flag confered no exclusion zone in a sailboat race in California waters and that I should be careful so as not to get hit by his keel. About two weeks after that he was hit by someone's fist with whom he had a nautical arguement. Maybe he should have been wearing a dive flag hat.

5. Boaters just not seeing it. They are not really programmed to notice it or it is lost between small swells on the ocean

 

[scubashawn123]

I realize this probably varies by state, but I'm finding it very difficult to find specific information on the actual diving regulations concerning dive flags, distances, boating regulations with regard to diving etc...

I know if you ask a group of divers, there will be several different answers as to how far away from a dive flag boats are supposed to operate. Another thing I've wondered is, whether or not it is legal to tow a dive flag while you are diving. Some say yes, others say no, but I have yet to find it addressed in any official state publication of laws and regulations. And I can't find anything specifying how close to the dive flag we lawfully have to remain while we are diving.

On boat-ed.com it says in Oklahoma boats must stay 150' from dive flags.

On the Texas Parks and Wildlife website I found this reference to diving:

It is unlawful to:



So, is that saying boats have to stay 50' from our dive flag or 150'? And it reads like they can be within 150', but they can't be going fast. So when we get our hand and arm chopped up by their props, they won't be that far away when they have to turn around and pluck our bleeding bodies out of the water. It's no wonder boats in lakes a vast majority of the time pay little regard to our dive flags. It is very difficult to find the rules when you are actually looking for them, let alone bubba in his fishing boat that couldn't care less.

Boaters have every right to be in the lakes the same as we do. I'm just trying to figure out why there seems to be an issue almost every time I put my flag out and there are boaters in the area. Like Timeliner has said in the past, they are idiot magnets and actually attract them like ants to sugar. I'm sure the fact that there just aren't many people that dive in Texoma, the boaters just don't know what to think.

What issues has everyone else had with boats and dive flags?

My approach is "STEALTH".............the distances a diver travels underwater can be far and a stationary dive flag does not really work, see reference to your rules from the parks departments 150 feet away, not far at all. I can't control boat drivers in the water with or without dive flag as you mention above.


Stealth......... the attribute or characteristic of acting in secrecy, or in such a way that the actions are unnoticed or difficult to detect by others.



How many divers get hit by boats a year? Anyone know?

 

[PvilleStang]

Hey, I came within 5 feet of being hit once out at Windy Point Public. we were coming up along the line of buoys and a boat full of guys that don't speak English pulled their boat THROUGH the swim zone out there. Not only are you supposed to stay 50' away from those buoys, but you're definitely not supposed to cross INTO the swim zone. Come to say those guys got one heck of a ticket they probably couldn't read.

 

[Kunk35]

In the events you guys witness a boat coming within the 150' radius, do you go to the trouble of taking down their boat numbers and turning them in? Do you say anything to the boaters? Does it make any difference?

 

[scubashawn123]

In the events you guys witness a boat coming within the 150' radius, do you go to the trouble of taking down their boat numbers and turning them in? Do you say anything to the boaters? Does it make any difference?

No....................happens too quickly for my eye sight......

 

[scubashawn123]

Dive Flag Law

Texas Dive Flags
Rules for TX divers and boaters

Thanks to Danny Bouska of the Diving Rebels Scuba Club for gathering this information for us.


For Divers in Texas

The following are excerpted from the Texas Statutes Parks and Wildlife Code, Chapter 31:

No swimmer or diver may come within 200 yards of a sight-seeing or excursion boat except for maintenance purposes or unless within an enclosed area.

To be entitled to the protections of this section, a scuba diver or snorkeler must prominently display a "diver down" flag from a buoy or vessel.

In this section, "'diver down' flag" means a square or rectangular red flag, at least 15 inches by 15 inches, that has a diagonal white stripe.



For Boaters in Texas

The Texas Parks and Wildlife's Digest of the Texas Water Safety Act, valid until Aug. 31, 2005, under Operation of Your Boat, states that it is unlawful to:

Operate within 50 feet of a "Diver Down Flag" or operate a boat within 150 feet of a "Diver Down Flag" except at Headway/Steerage Speed.

The Texas Statutes Parks and Wildlife Code, Chapter 31 includes these details:

Ž§ 31.099. CIRCULAR COURSE AROUND FISHERMAN OR SWIMMER.

(a) No person may operate a motorboat in a circular course around any other boat any occupant of which is engaged in fishing or around any person swimming.

Ž§ 31.1021. OPERATING VESSELS IN SCUBA DIVING OR SNORKELING AREAS.

a) No person may operate a vessel within 50 feet of a buoy or of another vessel displaying a "diver down" flag that marks an area in which a person is scuba diving or snorkeling.

(b) No person may operate a vessel at a speed greater than the minimum speed necessary to maintain steerageway and headway while the vessel is within 150 feet of a buoy or a vessel displaying a "diver down" flag that marks an area in which a person is scuba diving or snorkeling.

(c) To be entitled to the protections of this section, a scuba diver or snorkeler must prominently display a "diver down" flag from a buoy or vessel.

(d) This section does not apply:
(1) to a person who is operating a patrol or rescue craft; or
(2) in an emergency.

(e) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply:
(1) to a person who is already operating a vessel in an area when another person displays a "diver down" flag within 150 feet of that vessel;
(2) to a person who is operating a vessel in a waterway that is less than 300 feet wide; or
(3) to a person who has permission to enter the area from the person who placed the buoy or the person who is operating the vessel displaying the "diver down" flag.

(f) In this section, "'diver down' flag" means a square or rectangular red flag, at least 15 inches by 15 inches, that has a diagonal white stripe.


Texas Dive Flags


http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PW/content/htm/pw.004.00.000031.00.htm#31.102.00

 

[Lake Travis Scuba]

I fly two dive flags two feet above the boat, along with dive flag graphics on the Giant Stride. For the most part, boaters seem to have no idea about safe distances to remain from the boat, if they even recognize a flying dive flag. To make matters worse, boat renters are typically not instructed about lake markers. You just have to have dollars, not sense, to drive a boat on Lake Travis. Only once did a boater slow down and apologize for coming too close after they recognized the dive flag.

IMHO - Anyone diving the lake should carry and deploy a surface marker buoy before surfacing so that boaters have a chance to avoid you during ascent. This skill should be taught in Open Water course and the student should be introduced to a line reel and SMB.

Unless Lake Patrol observes a boat violating the boating regulations, taking the number and reporting a violator is pointless. One diver wanted to jump across the water and tear into a boater that nearly hit another divers SMB as they approached my boat. Yelling at violators, if they can hear you, may make you feel better but doesn't solve the problem.

 

[redacted]

There are 3 regulatory bodies for dive flags in TX. Coastal waters use CG regs. Corps of Engineer lakes use COE regs. And other TX bodies of water use TPW regs. As I recall, CG regs require a flag and set prescribed distances divers should remain within and boats should avoid. COE regs also require a flag and set distances boats should avoid but do not prescribe distances divers should remain within. The TPW regs do not require a flag but do establish distances boats should avoid.

If I don't have to use a flag and the dive site is unlikely to be made safer by using one, I don't. For COE waters, I either violate the reg and don't use a flag or I place the flag very close to shore or some obstructions so boats don't come play with it. In coastal waters, I usually use a flag

 

[carlislere]

The Texas Dive Flag Act came about from Senate Bill 1611 in 1989. It took effect on September
1, 1989. The contents have been written in earlier posts, but my copy shows the diver down flag must be 24 x 24 inches. That could have changed since the original act, so go with what the TPWD regs state. We are not required, by the act, to fly the diver down flag when scuba diving or snorkeling in Texas, but for protection of the law one should be flown.
The act came about because instructors were getting fed up with boats running over flags, stealing flags off poles and wind board surfers running over the flags and almost getting run over when surfacing with students or a boat is parked on your flag or heading at you while on the surface next to your flag. Things got pretty heated, at times, in the mid to late 80s at Lake Travis, expecially during holiday weekends. I remember a boat pulled up to a dive flag buoy at Windy Point to tie off during a class lunch break and and an instructor, not this one, jumped in the water with a bang stick. The boat got away before the instructor could create a new dive site.