I see most guys here are fairly experienced (at least according to their profile) but flying search and rescue for a living for the last 13 years, I have seen my share of single diver deaths. I am not a huge fan of large groups but there is usually a middle ground that can be reached. I dive here in Hawaii where vis is usually 80-100 ft. and we can keep good spacing. When the water is churned up and vis low we tighten up. I have found that as long as we brief how things are going to play out in the event of low vis that cuts down on the problems.
Diving in larger groups than pairs
- Thread starter pelagic_by_nature
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ItsBruce
Contributor
My buddy and I will dive in a group if it is a group or guided dive as is required in certain places. But, I want a specific buddy. I want to know who it is that I need to keep tabs on and who it is that should be keeping tabs on me.
Guess I will be the minority here. I do a lot of group diving and I love it! We have a group of 7 experienced divers. We always have buddy teams or 2 or 3 depending on numbers.
We exchange emails during the week to arrange time and place of dive. Having a group means there is a good chance that there will be a buddy to dive with. We have dived together enough over the years to know each other's gear and quirks. Everyone in the group has been "vetted". Anyone in the group can invite someone to a dive but the group decides if they will be allowed to dive again based on their demonstrated dive skill.
7 sets of eyes are better for finding interesting stuff and watching out for each other. Situational awareness and consideration for each other means we take turns at photographing subjects without silting, bumping or kicking each other.
Group diving is a safe and viable means of diving. Like all diving training, skills and planning make for a great diving experience! Just my .02
We exchange emails during the week to arrange time and place of dive. Having a group means there is a good chance that there will be a buddy to dive with. We have dived together enough over the years to know each other's gear and quirks. Everyone in the group has been "vetted". Anyone in the group can invite someone to a dive but the group decides if they will be allowed to dive again based on their demonstrated dive skill.
7 sets of eyes are better for finding interesting stuff and watching out for each other. Situational awareness and consideration for each other means we take turns at photographing subjects without silting, bumping or kicking each other.
Group diving is a safe and viable means of diving. Like all diving training, skills and planning make for a great diving experience! Just my .02
DevonDiver
N/A
What you say is valid. By allocating buddy teams, you are diving within the buddy system. Safe. It is a group of buddy teams.
When some posters in this thread talk about 'group dives', they are refering to the (regretably too common) practice of a group of divers following a DM like a herd, where no individual diver is allocated to another diver as a formal buddy - thus, there are little/no buddy checks and no inter-diver responsibility during the dive. It is a group of individual divers. This is a very unsafe practice and contrary to what divers are taught in any scuba class, with any agency, at any level.
I have experienced this as well. I think it is up to the diver to ensure they have a buddy allocated and arrange for reallocation if they are not comfortable. I have refused to be buddied with someone I was not comfortable with and insisted on a 3 diver allocation. That wasn't a particularly popular decision with the boat operator because they wanted buddy PAIRS. I believe we all have the right to make choices to keep ourselves safe. In that case it was safer to be one of three than one of two!
I know that the "group diving" some people here are talking about is probably the dive boat situation you describe but I also think some are referring to "dive clubs". Some shops organize trips or dive days with groups of divers in the water.
What I suggest is that developing a static pool or personal dive Group for standard shore dives is a good and safe option. Our group has on many occasions organized weekends away diving and dive trips. With our own "pool" of dive buddies we can avoid being assigned a buddy we may not be able to rely on in unfamiliar conditions.
The other benefit is that we often book out the boat or have enough numbers to ensure the boat operator does listen to our requests. We always consider others involved and seldom make requests. There have been occasions where we have refused a dive site we felt conditions were not safe and had the other divers on the boat thank us!
My point is that "Group Diving" is a good, safe and appropriate approach to diving where there are smaller buddy groups within the larger group. I will say that we have limited the size of our group to 8 because we find more than that does get a bit crowded even with competent divers with good situational awareness.
I know that the "group diving" some people here are talking about is probably the dive boat situation you describe but I also think some are referring to "dive clubs". Some shops organize trips or dive days with groups of divers in the water.
What I suggest is that developing a static pool or personal dive Group for standard shore dives is a good and safe option. Our group has on many occasions organized weekends away diving and dive trips. With our own "pool" of dive buddies we can avoid being assigned a buddy we may not be able to rely on in unfamiliar conditions.
The other benefit is that we often book out the boat or have enough numbers to ensure the boat operator does listen to our requests. We always consider others involved and seldom make requests. There have been occasions where we have refused a dive site we felt conditions were not safe and had the other divers on the boat thank us!
My point is that "Group Diving" is a good, safe and appropriate approach to diving where there are smaller buddy groups within the larger group. I will say that we have limited the size of our group to 8 because we find more than that does get a bit crowded even with competent divers with good situational awareness.
cocoajoe
Contributor
Group dives (drift) are a fact of life in South Fla. On my last (2 tank) dive, I didn't have a buddy. I talked to the Capt. ahead of time and he said I could pair up with the guide/leader, which I did. The leader was top notch and would stop periodically to make sure everything was OK and even did a couple of headcounts.
But here's the thing: It was almost like I was a guide as well and although it was good training, it did take some of the fun out of it.
But here's the thing: It was almost like I was a guide as well and although it was good training, it did take some of the fun out of it.
Garth
Contributor
Group dives in poor visibility are like being by yourself because by the time someone misses you they can't see you. Depends on the environment
yep.. nothing makes up for a good buddy grouping. 
I remember a dive where the viz closed in so bad we tightened our buddy group of 3 so we were diving shoulder to shoulder. I was in the middle and the buddy on my left couldn't see the buddy on my right! We got some great macro shots that dive tho. Nobuddy got separated and we enjoyed 90 minute dive anyway!
I would not want to be buddied with the DM/dive leader. They have too much on their plate to be a really good buddy IMHO. If you can't avoid that pairing it becomes basicly your responsibility to accept that fact and ensure you are even more careful than normal. If you don't mind that the pairing will have unequal responsibility with the onus on you being prepared to sacrifice your dive to stay with them taking care of everyone else then it can be a great learning experience.
I remember a dive where the viz closed in so bad we tightened our buddy group of 3 so we were diving shoulder to shoulder. I was in the middle and the buddy on my left couldn't see the buddy on my right! We got some great macro shots that dive tho. Nobuddy got separated and we enjoyed 90 minute dive anyway!I would not want to be buddied with the DM/dive leader. They have too much on their plate to be a really good buddy IMHO. If you can't avoid that pairing it becomes basicly your responsibility to accept that fact and ensure you are even more careful than normal. If you don't mind that the pairing will have unequal responsibility with the onus on you being prepared to sacrifice your dive to stay with them taking care of everyone else then it can be a great learning experience.
I can't think of a situation where diving as an undefined large group is unavoidable. And I wonder why you think drift diving and deep diving are best done as a group?
A deep dive is a place where I definitely want one or two buddies who have committed to keeping an eye on me while I keep an eye on them. If things go wrong deep, I'd much rather solve the problem, as much as it can be solved, underwater, than go for a long, risky swim to the surface with a major issue.
In drift diving, it can be somewhat difficult to keep even a buddy pair together, let alone a large, amorphous group.
I just don't see why either of those situations makes it either necessary or desirable to dive without defined buddy teams.
Garth
Contributor
yep.. nothing makes up for a good buddy grouping.
I would not want to be buddied with the DM/dive leader. They have too much on their plate to be a really good buddy IMHO. If you can't avoid that pairing it becomes basicly your responsibility to accept that fact and ensure you are even more careful than normal. If you don't mind that the pairing will have unequal responsibility with the onus on you being prepared to sacrifice your dive to stay with them taking care of everyone else then it can be a great learning experience.
At least you didn't say one diver was in the front and one was in the back....:-o
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