Diving Accident, Self-Responsibility and Balance

[flots am]

The C-card system is designed to produce dependent divers of this particular skill set.

She did what she was taugth and the way she did it is not to be unexpected under the circumstances.

Better training, rather than more training, could have helped marginally.

Actually, shops/instructors that succumbed to free-market pressures did that.

If every OW class required that every student had all the skills dead solid and could perform them repeatedly, over a period of weeks, with little effort, we would end up with very safe divers.

The actual class content is completely sufficient for the vast majority of recreational divers. The problem is that there isn't enough practice time or high enough performance requirements by the instructors, or enough repetition, or practice after certification, so the procedures don't last much longer than it takes to print the cards.

This dive could have been turned into nothing more than an interesting footnote, had the OP, at the first sign of anxiety, done what OW students are told on the first day of class "If you're not happy underwater, come back to the surface"

flots.

 

[T.C.]

We can teach with a carrot, or teach with a stick. I personally find teaching with a carrot more effective.

They're people, not animals.

When I teach people, I teach to let them discover and learn the material using their own motivation and interest in the materials.

---------- Post added February 26th, 2014 at 01:58 PM ----------

First of all, thanks for your service. Hats off to you from an old sailor.

I respectfully disagree with your statement here. None of us was there, and if you're an Army medic you're used to dealing with pre-screened, relatively physically fit individuals. Recreational divers are a microcosm of the population. They come in all shapes, sizes, fitness levels and with all kinds of comborbidities. While it's certainly possible that her incident can be attributed completely to panic, it's also entirely plausible that she did have a medical event underwater.

Thank You. I'm on tanks, not a medic, but I do have significant training in trauma aid. Because most of my practical experience was on personnel other than Soldiers, but on Afghans (and some Iraqis) who were far from the paradigm of health; I don't expect a perfect specimen.

Pragmatically, or as the medical community calls it, diagnostic parsimony; says the simplistic solution that explains the situation completely is most likely. Panic explains everything from her loss of buoyancy control to the shortness of breath and cyanosis.

There red remains zero evidence in favor of a medical event, other than the OPs attempt to shift the blame to a rarer cause like EIB.

 

[gianaameri]

"If you're not happy underwater, come back to the surface"

...and that is the flight response which the amigdala activated in her brain which is why she went up and not down.

 

[T.C.]

If you are in respiratory distress, you can't do all those things to self-help.
You can't breathe, you can't fight.
You can't fight to save your life, that of your buddy, that of your kids...
Panic is integral part of respiratory distress.

Bull. You can do quite a bit to save your life, especially if you remain calm and follow your training. Believe me, I've been in worse situations than just being in respiratory distress.

Panic causes you to be unable to do anything to help yourself. Control the panic, and you have a good chance to survive.

She did not. She cause the distress by panicking, then failed to apply her training to help herself. The panic induced distress she had was not life threatening. If it was, it would have killed her before she was on the boat. Instead, the panic that prevented her from ditching her lead, and inflating her BCD almost killed her. Without the other divers to drop her weights and inflate her BCD, she would have struggled to stay afloat, succumbed and drowned.

Panic, not respiratory distress, almost killed her.

 

[Peter69_56]

They're people, not animals.

When I teach people, I teach to let them discover and learn the material using their own motivation and interest in the materials.
.

You missed my point completely. My comment was a saying "Carrot or the Stick" Softly approach or the Hard approach. I was not suggesting anyone was an animal. perhaps you are not familiar with this saying

I think its not your message that is the issue but how you are getting it across (which was the reason for my tongue in cheek comment). Perhaps it is just me, but if I were her I would have felt attacked by you and I don't think attacking someone who has had the courage to post in such an exposing manner is needed. She is clearly acknowledging she made mistakes, and asking for help, and I think it appropriate that we offer suggestions and help in a courteous manner, taking in that she has been through quite a bit with this event. We on the other hand have no emotional attachment to this event at all, it can easily be very clinical and emotionless.

As I said its not what you are saying, but perhaps how you are saying it.

 

[flots am]

...and that is the flight response which the amigdala activated in her brain which is why she went up and not down.

That's panic, not training.

When I tell the students "not happy", I don't mean "when you're moments away from death," I mean "when you're no longer happy"

The first one gets you bolting to the surface where you don't know how you got there, maybe embolizing, maybe drowning or a heart-attack.

The second one gets a controlled ascent with your buddy and some happy-floaty time.

There's a big difference.

flots.

 

[gianaameri]

That's panic, not training.

When I tell the students "not happy", I don't mean "when you're moments away from death," I mean "when you're no longer happy"

The first one gets you bolting to the surface where you don't know how you got there, maybe embolizing, maybe drowning or a heart-attack.

The second one gets a controlled ascent with your buddy and some happy-floaty time on the surface.

There's a big difference.

flots.

Sure, she did not see it coming till it was too late.

 

[flots am]

Sure, she did not see it coming till it was too late.

She would have benefited from this.

5th item down under "Questions to ask the instructors"

 

[gianaameri]

She would have benefited from this.

5th item down under "Questions to ask the instructors"

"Do you teach the panic cycle?"

Then, how about you explain it to us here or in a separate thread...

 

[flots am]

"Do you teach the panic cycle?"

Then, how about you explain it to us here or in a separate thread...

That was your instructor's job.

If he didn't teach you, you should go ask him.