Question...it was obviously going to be a body retrieval exercise..why could they not have waited till morning before going in with visibility? Just wondering why the rush to get in the water in the dark in conditions they were unsure about.
Divers drown in mining pond during search-and-rescue operation
- Thread starter gcarter
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DrBarbarian
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There was a thunderstorm prior to the drowning.... flood water was gushing into the pond... the 6 divers were tied together with a rope....
they are now attempting to send another batch of divers in to search for the teenager.....
they are now attempting to send another batch of divers in to search for the teenager.....
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
As a first responder - you don't get the option to pick and choose which assignments you like or don't like. You are on call and you answer the call. Think of the public outcry if firefighters decide your house on fire is too dangerous and will handle it in the morning after it burns to the foundation.
All around bad ideas - however if they are truely fearful of their lives and the superiors agree it is too dangerous you can in fact postpone any action. That said very few first responders think they are not qualified to handle any incident thrown their way if they were trained for the scenario.
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That seems like crazy talk. Atleast until the conditions improve. Surely it's being considered a recovery at this point.
Condolences to the families and the community... Tragic.
DrBarbarian
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clownfishsydney
Contributor
Really? As a professional Australian bushfire fighter before I retired, we ALWAYS had the option to retreat or leave if we thought the conditions were dangerous. I do not know any organisation (apart from perhaps some parts of the military) that would look unfavourably on you for deciding it was too dangerous.As a first responder - you don't get the option to pick and choose which assignments you like or don't like. You are on call and you answer the call. Think of the public outcry if firefighters decide your house on fire is too dangerous and will handle it in the morning after it burns to the foundation.
All around bad ideas - however if they are truely fearful of their lives and the superiors agree it is too dangerous you can in fact postpone any action. That said very few first responders think they are not qualified to handle any incident thrown their way if they were trained for the scenario.
DrBarbarian
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teenager body found couple hour ago....
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
You may be correct - I had the local US first responders in mind - I was not thinking globally.
Once an Incident Commander takes command of an operation you do not have the option to "freelance" (do what you want or choose another assignment), you are committed. Until or unless the Incident Commander deems the incident too dangerous. You have an option to inform the Safety Officer or the IC when you observe an unsafe act but you do not have the right or the authority to stop mitigating the incident. If you choose to walk away - no one is going to shoot you however here in the US if you disobey an Incident Commanders orders you will be brought up on charges, suspended or terminated. You always have an option as you mentioned.
Most in the fires service - and yes it is a paramilitary organization (chain of command rules) follow the orders of the incident command or you find another line of work because you will not have a job here in the US. Although I guess someone will jump in and say you can always sue to get your job back...
Added -> We are all professional - but some of us get paid for it...
Bubblesong
Contributor
20 years ago, 6 firefighters died trying to save others in a collapsing building in Worcester, so by now they have greatly improved their safety protocols.You may be correct - I had the local US first responders in mind - I was not thinking globally.
Once an Incident Commander takes command of an operation you do not have the option to "freelance" (do what you want or choose another assignment), you are committed. Until or unless the Incident Commander deems the incident too dangerous. You have an option to inform the Safety Officer or the IC when you observe an unsafe act but you do not have the right or the authority to stop mitigating the incident. If you choose to walk away - no one is going to shoot you however here in the US if you disobey an Incident Commanders orders you will be brought up on charges, suspended or terminated. You always have an option as you mentioned.
Most in the fires service - and yes it is a paramilitary organization (chain of command rules) follow the orders of the incident command or you find another line of work because you will not have a job here in the US. Although I guess someone will jump in and say you can always sue to get your job back...
Worcester Cold Storage and Warehouse Co. fire - Wikipedia
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
Some sacrifices are learning for the ages (Hackensack Ford in NJ Truss construction), some are emotionally driven like the Worcester fire.
I would remind everyone of the greatest act of sacrifice - on 9/11. Every life lost is a sacrifice - I am not minimizing any loss of a first responder. But every man and woman that signs up understands you may give your life in the duty of service. We just hope not to cash in on that ticket...
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