Diver missing in the Bahamas

[Doug Kahle]

I disagree with Bandit-TX.

I think it is highly probable that he ditched his gear. A recent article I read with interviews from the crew stated that the BCD was found with the buckles unbuckled. I don't think a shark bite could unbuckle the buckles. As discussed below, most shark bites on divers consist of only one quick bite.

You state that "I can't see any experienced diver ditching his floatation device." Completely disagree. If the diver is drifting away from the boat and needs to swim to the boat, the first thing the diver will ditch is his BCD and tank -- it creates the most drag. The diver's wetsuit will provide all the floatation the diver needs. I know JASA requires full wetsuits; I'm assuming he was wearing a full 3mm wetsuit; that is plenty of floatation. Not to mention, I'm not sure the diver is thinking about floatation as opposed to making it back to the boat.

You state that "all of the gear was found." I have not seen a single report that stated they found his fins. That is the one piece of gear that the diver would NOT ditch to swim back to the boat in a strong current.

The problem I have is with the mask. Not sure why he would ditch the mask; but, I have never tried to do the breast stroke with a SCUBA mask on. Maybe he ditched it; maybe it was knocked off when he removed the BCD; who knows?

I am very curious to see the "shredded" gear. I don't believe the Coast Guard is calling it a shark attack. Most shark bites on divers, which are very rare to begin with, consist of one quick bite, i.e., the Marcus Groh incident and the spearo in Palm Beach County. The shark almost always bites the leg and then runs away like a bat out of hell after the bite. A shark coming back for more, a shark continuously coming at the diver, or a pack of sharks attacking a diver happens only in movies.

I think most people know that the Shear Water is not a buddy system of diving, unless the divers set up a buddy system on their own initiative. The pool is always open on the Shear Water, which means divers are constantly coming and going in and out of the water. Most divers prefer it that way, especially photographers. Thus, it would be difficult to realize that anyone was missing until the end of the dive day. Again, this is a system that most photographers prefer; and, if the diver was not comfortable diving this way he/she could certainly team-up with another diver or group.

If the dive was in the deeper waters of Tiger Beach, i.e., 80 to 100 feet, the divers almost always come up the anchor line; thus, the divers hang on the anchor line to do their safety stop. And, there are very strong currents on the deeper dives; so, they also hang on the line to prevent being swept away.

With five Shear Water trips and around 300 shark feeding dives, I find it very hard to believe that a shark could attack someone out of their BCD.

Finally, I think it is important to note that there is a group of people in the Bahamas that want JASA out of the Bahamas. So, they will definitely try to capitalize on this tragic event. For example, just read the statement from Neal Watson, and notice he does not even get some of the basic facts right, i.e., the incident happened at 9:42 pm?

http://bahamaspress.com/2014/07/18/...issing-in-the-dive-expedition-in-the-Bahamas/

There is a long history between JASA and some of the other operators in the Bahamas; probably could write a book on it. So, I will take anything I hear from the Bahamian "officials" with a grain of salt.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I disagree with Bandit-TX.

I think it is highly probable that he ditched his gear. A recent article I read with interviews from the crew stated that the BCD was found with the buckles unbuckled. I don't think a shark bite could unbuckle the buckles. As discussed below, most shark bites on divers consist of only one quick bite.

You state that "I can't see any experienced diver ditching his floatation device." Completely disagree. If the diver is drifting away from the boat and needs to swim to the boat, the first thing the diver will ditch is his BCD and tank -- it creates the most drag. The diver's wetsuit will provide all the floatation the diver needs. I know JASA requires full wetsuits; I'm assuming he was wearing a full 3mm wetsuit; that is plenty of floatation. Not to mention, I'm not sure the diver is thinking about floatation as opposed to making it back to the boat.

You state that "all of the gear was found." I have not seen a single report that stated they found his fins. That is the one piece of gear that the diver would NOT ditch to swim back to the boat in a strong current.

The problem I have is with the mask. Not sure why he would ditch the mask; but, I have never tried to do the breast stroke with a SCUBA mask on. Maybe he ditched it; maybe it was knocked off when he removed the BCD; who knows?

I am very curious to see the "shredded" gear. I don't believe the Coast Guard is calling it a shark attack. Most shark bites on divers, which are very rare to begin with, consist of one quick bite, i.e., the Marcus Groh incident and the spearo in Palm Beach County. The shark almost always bites the leg and then runs away like a bat out of hell after the bite. A shark coming back for more, a shark continuously coming at the diver, or a pack of sharks attacking a diver happens only in movies.

I think most people know that the Shear Water is not a buddy system of diving, unless the divers set up a buddy system on their own initiative. The pool is always open on the Shear Water, which means divers are constantly coming and going in and out of the water. Most divers prefer it that way, especially photographers. Thus, it would be difficult to realize that anyone was missing until the end of the dive day. Again, this is a system that most photographers prefer; and, if the diver was not comfortable diving this way he/she could certainly team-up with another diver or group.

If the dive was in the deeper waters of Tiger Beach, i.e., 80 to 100 feet, the divers almost always come up the anchor line; thus, the divers hang on the anchor line to do their safety stop. And, there are very strong currents on the deeper dives; so, they also hang on the line to prevent being swept away.

With five Shear Water trips and around 300 shark feeding dives, I find it very hard to believe that a shark could attack someone out of their BCD.

Finally, I think it is important to note that there is a group of people in the Bahamas that want JASA out of the Bahamas. So, they will definitely try to capitalize on this tragic event. For example, just read the statement from Neal Watson, and notice he does not even get some of the basic facts right, i.e., the incident happened at 9:42 pm?

Bahamaspress.com » Chiropractor Dr. John Petty is the man missing in the dive expedition in the Bahamas ? Was US Registered Dive Company Practising and Following Safety Proceedures?

There is a long history between JASA and some of the other operators in the Bahamas; probably could write a book on it. So, I will take anything I hear from the Bahamian "officials" with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the info. So were they diving in 20 or 100 ft of water? The fact that the guy was an extremely fit marathon runner DOES support the idea that he might have decided to ditch his tank if he were swept away by a surface current and nobody on board was watching the surface or could hear him scream for help. I probably would not ditch my tank and BC in that situation because I would be pretty sure they would eventually discover me missing and then come looking...but if it was not that far away and it was getting close to dark.. I might just be tempted to go for it.. Did he have an expensive camera? I would think he would be hesitant to ditch a camera unless it was absolutely needed.

Also, about the sharks coming back for more. With respect to the diver spearo who was attacked in PB county in which the shark ate a good chunk of his calf... his buddy said the shark came back for more and they had to fight it off. At least that is what I recall.

Also, the child who was attacked by a tiger while swimming off the beach in vero beach about 20 years ago was pretty much eaten with the legs, arms and head missing, the remains of a torso were found and used to confirm the species of the shark that ate the child. So based on these two incidents alone, I am not so sure that a shark will only ever take one bite from a person.

 

[Wookie]

Thanks for the info. So were they diving in 20 or 100 ft of water?

My information that's only third hand (that's practically eyewitness on the interwebs, right?) is that he surfaced beyond the trail ball/tag line, indicated to the Captain that he would descend and swim to the boat. That's the last time he was seen.

 

[drrich2]

You state that "all of the gear was found." I have not seen a single report that stated they found his fins. That is the one piece of gear that the diver would NOT ditch to swim back to the boat in a strong current.

I think there's a way the authorities could clear up the 'did a shark kill him while geared up' question.

While fabric probably doesn't soak up blood underwater the way it would on land, I'm thinking a highly physically traumatic death such as shark attack tends to get blood on your clothes. So, while the blood would be more dilute than, say, found on the clothes of a stabbing victim on land, and even allowing that a lot of scuba gear is black and hard to see stains on, shouldn't they be able to test and find obvious evidence of human blood on the recovered gear?

This assumes the theory of shark attack were true, and that he died in his gear. If that gear were tested for blood and none found, seems unlikely he was in the gear when the shark shredded it. On the other hand, find a lot of blood on the gear, odds are he didn't ditch it, swim for the boat & the gear was shredded separately (but he still could've died of something else, like a heart attack, while geared up & been 'scavenged' later).

Richard.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

My information that's only third hand (that's practically eyewitness on the interwebs, right?) is that he surfaced beyond the trail ball/tag line, indicated to the Captain that he would descend and swim to the boat. That's the last time he was seen.

In that situation, the captain would presumably remain to watch or specifically assign a lookout to ensure the diver made it to the rope. Yes? Also, the diver would have to be reasonably close to the boat to be able to communicate his intentions.

If that were the case, it would seem extremely unlikely that the diver would drift off on the surface to such a degree that he would contemplate ditching gear. Also, if the diver ran into trouble doing this, or if he got screwed up on descent and swam the wrong direction etc... his "disappearance" would (should have) been noted very quickly.

In other words, if the guy is close enough to communicate his intentions to swim to the rope end underwater (or the boat itself or the anchor line), he should have made the end of the rope within a few minutes or the alarm bells would have went off almost immediately.

 

[Wookie]

In that situation, the captain would presumably remain to watch or specifically assign a lookout to ensure the diver made it to the rope. Yes? Also, the diver would have to be reasonably close to the boat to be able to communicate his intentions.

If that were the case, it would seem extremely unlikely that the diver would drift off on the surface to such a degree that he would contemplate ditching gear. Also, if the diver ran into trouble doing this, or if he got screwed up on descent and swam the wrong direction etc... his "disappearance" would (should have) been noted very quickly.

In other words, if the guy is close enough to communicate his intentions to swim to the rope end underwater (or the boat itself or the anchor line), he should have made the end of the rope within a few minutes or the alarm bells would have went off almost immediately.

I too have lost a diver. It was in 2001, a terrible year for accidents in the Flower Gardens, and for my boat. The diver was last seen on the mooring coming up by his buddies. The current was strong, but not Jupiter strong. I knew he was missing long before his dive buddies came up, as he usually proceeded them up by 10 minutes. Not until they surfaced 10 min. later did I raise the alarm. He was in the water with 34 divers and a dedicated dive buddy team. He was a part of a team of 3. One of the 3 was his spouse, presumably with a vested interest in keeping him alive.

You may theorize all you want, but I've lived it. We never saw anything of him again. To this day, I have no idea what happened to him. I do not consider myself a poor, irresponsible or unsafe captain, although I can be irritating. It happens.

 

[brnt999]

I disagree with Bandit-TX.

I think it is highly probable that he ditched his gear. A recent article I read with interviews from the crew stated that the BCD was found with the buckles unbuckled. I don't think a shark bite could unbuckle the buckles. As discussed below, most shark bites on divers consist of only one quick bite.

You state that "I can't see any experienced diver ditching his floatation device." Completely disagree. If the diver is drifting away from the boat and needs to swim to the boat, the first thing the diver will ditch is his BCD and tank -- it creates the most drag. The diver's wetsuit will provide all the floatation the diver needs. I know JASA requires full wetsuits; I'm assuming he was wearing a full 3mm wetsuit; that is plenty of floatation. Not to mention, I'm not sure the diver is thinking about floatation as opposed to making it back to the boat.

You state that "all of the gear was found." I have not seen a single report that stated they found his fins. That is the one piece of gear that the diver would NOT ditch to swim back to the boat in a strong current.

The problem I have is with the mask. Not sure why he would ditch the mask; but, I have never tried to do the breast stroke with a SCUBA mask on. Maybe he ditched it; maybe it was knocked off when he removed the BCD; who knows?

I am very curious to see the "shredded" gear. I don't believe the Coast Guard is calling it a shark attack. Most shark bites on divers, which are very rare to begin with, consist of one quick bite, i.e., the Marcus Groh incident and the spearo in Palm Beach County. The shark almost always bites the leg and then runs away like a bat out of hell after the bite. A shark coming back for more, a shark continuously coming at the diver, or a pack of sharks attacking a diver happens only in movies.

I think most people know that the Shear Water is not a buddy system of diving, unless the divers set up a buddy system on their own initiative. The pool is always open on the Shear Water, which means divers are constantly coming and going in and out of the water. Most divers prefer it that way, especially photographers. Thus, it would be difficult to realize that anyone was missing until the end of the dive day. Again, this is a system that most photographers prefer; and, if the diver was not comfortable diving this way he/she could certainly team-up with another diver or group.

If the dive was in the deeper waters of Tiger Beach, i.e., 80 to 100 feet, the divers almost always come up the anchor line; thus, the divers hang on the anchor line to do their safety stop. And, there are very strong currents on the deeper dives; so, they also hang on the line to prevent being swept away.

With five Shear Water trips and around 300 shark feeding dives, I find it very hard to believe that a shark could attack someone out of their BCD.

Finally, I think it is important to note that there is a group of people in the Bahamas that want JASA out of the Bahamas. So, they will definitely try to capitalize on this tragic event. For example, just read the statement from Neal Watson, and notice he does not even get some of the basic facts right, i.e., the incident happened at 9:42 pm?

Bahamaspress.com » Chiropractor Dr. John Petty is the man missing in the dive expedition in the Bahamas ? Was US Registered Dive Company Practising and Following Safety Proceedures?

There is a long history between JASA and some of the other operators in the Bahamas; probably could write a book on it. So, I will take anything I hear from the Bahamian "officials" with a grain of salt.

There is a third potential scenario---he was attacked by a shark and he unbuckled his BCD in an attempt to get away.

 

[boulderjohn]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Several posts have been deleted. The rules of this forum do not allow blamestorming. Blamestorming is pointing fingers and accusing individuals of blameworthy actions. You can discuss actions in a generic sense, as in "The usual practice for a diver operation in such a case to..." Furthermore, remember that the topic of this thread is a specific fatal dive incident. It is not whether or not a specific operation deserves to exist.

---

 

[vincent54]

Sharks are not the only thing that tear and shred dive equipment. Boat props do a pretty good job. I assume they found evidence of shark teeth or similar to justify that claim, Or is it just sensationalism.

 

[scorpiofish]

I too have lost a diver. It was in 2001, a terrible year for accidents in the Flower Gardens, and for my boat. The diver was last seen on the mooring coming up by his buddies. The current was strong, but not Jupiter strong. I knew he was missing long before his dive buddies came up, as he usually proceeded them up by 10 minutes. Not until they surfaced 10 min. later did I raise the alarm. He was in the water with 34 divers and a dedicated dive buddy team. He was a part of a team of 3. One of the 3 was his spouse, presumably with a vested interest in keeping him alive.

You may theorize all you want, but I've lived it. We never saw anything of him again. To this day, I have no idea what happened to him. I do not consider myself a poor, irresponsible or unsafe captain, although I can be irritating. It happens.

You lost a diver. By definition, you are a bad captain. By definition, his buddies, including his wife, were bad buddies. I think people believe that if everyone follows best practices, bad outcomes will not happen. I think that they are mistaken. We try to mitigate risk, but we can never eliminate it. In the "Instructor to Instructor" forum, someone asked about students who bolted to the surface during training. One the gods of the forum stated that he had never had it happened. If it happened, it was a meant definitely that there were deficiencies in the quality of instruction. Right. Bad things happens. Bad outcomes happen even when proper procedure is followed.

With that said, I'm still interested in some of the details. I've been on the itinerary twice before, although it has been a while. There was always a crew member in the water. Was/is this SOP?