Diver missing in the Bahamas

[boulderjohn]

Yes! I agree. The thing is, I have seen many divers with integrated weights that are very heavy....and the norm is, if they suddenly are OOA, they don't ditch the integrated weight--it is too hard on many systems....weight belts like the rubber freedive belts are easy, but few scuba divers have them....I am not talking about a calm, deliberate action...I am talking about what we normally see off S Fla in the normal scenarios where something caused the diver to suddenly be OOA. Certainly massive cramping could easily put most divers into a helpless enough situation, that ultimately an OOA outcome would be the probable result. Falling asleep underwater could create the same outcome ( normally a deep on air event).

You are saying that it is harder to release the quick release systems than to remove the entire system?

 

[danvolker]

You are saying that it is harder to release the quick release systems than to remove the entire system?

I am saying I have seen plenty of Integrated BC systems where the diver NEVER has imagined that they may run out of air...that they may need to ditch....this particularly with divers with over 100 dives....that have gotten to the point that they just don't see themselves having trouble or running OOA....Especially with photographers.
Some of the BC intergrated weight systems need you to actually have tried dumping them a few times, to know how.....and then there is the issue of having a big camera in your hands.....so you don't have your hands free...and the shooter in this predicament would need to try and hold the camera in one hand, and use the other hand to release..."something" that could be done with THAT HAND quickly. They won't want to let go of the camera...until they see no other possible choice...until it may be too late....

There is also the potential belief by the diver that their big HP tank weighs a ton....even empty...and they may decide, right or wrong, that they are not going to be able to swim the tank up without air in the BC...Many may not know exactly where all their negative buoyancy is coming from...they may well think both integrated weights and tank....they might decide out of all of this is the answer.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am saying I have seen plenty of Integrated BC systems where the diver NEVER has imagined that they may run out of air...that they may need to ditch....this particularly with divers with over 100 dives....that have gotten to the point that they just don't see themselves having trouble or running OOA....Especially with photographers.
Some of the BC intergrated weight systems need you to actually have tried dumping them a few times, to know how.....and then there is the issue of having a big camera in your hands.....so you don't have your hands free...and the shooter in this predicament would need to try and hold the camera in one hand, and use the other hand to release..."something" that could be done with THAT HAND quickly. They won't want to let go of the camera...until they see no other possible choice...until it may be too late....

There is also the potential belief by the diver that their big HP tank weighs a ton....even empty...and they may decide, right or wrong, that they are not going to be able to swim the tank up without air in the BC...Many may not know exactly where all their negative buoyancy is coming from...they may well think both integrated weights and tank....they might decide out of all of this is the answer.

I guess I did not realize from reading this thread that the gear was found on the ocean floor.

 

[danvolker]

I guess I did not realize from reading this thread that the gear was found on the ocean floor.

In a fairly neat line on the bottom.

 

[ScubaPink]

To me, this sounds alot like the "party line" that all boats should cater to novice divers, and run practices and protocols with babysitters in water, and the assumption that at all times, the hands of the divers need to be held....
I will tell you right now, that many of us would quit diving before we would go out on a typical novice boat with their joke of a nanny nation type baby sitting service.....Shearwater caters to divers that will not put up with that nonsense, and I imagine John was one of these, that would detest the idea of a baby sitting service and enforced buddy system.

Wow. Considering the circumstances that generated this thread the individual front and center might just disagree. This is in incredibly poor taste imo. (I'll wait for all of the- he went well aware of the risks, blah blah posts)

Regarding the Groh incident, I read several places where the cage dropped right next to him. He, along with his buddy, were on the bottom with their cameras. So, he did everything wrong by his positioning and died for it in the end.(according to a post in this thread citing his death was due to Groh's negligence) If the cage scenario is true, it is at least 50/50 for Groh and op. OR- you could say- you are in the water knowing the risk so it is ultimately your own fault. Two lawyers could argue both sides to a point.

Regardless- we do not know what killed this man. In fact, we have no body so we do not even KNOW he has expired.

Some people think this behavior of baiting sharks is messing with mother nature while others strongly disagree. If the risks were only to those individuals who are willing to do the baiting activity, we all might look the other way. However- the issue is whether or not this behavior actually does change their behavior towards divers in the water, boat motors, cameras, etc and whether someone not engaged in this elected non "babysitting nanny op" will eventually be adversely affected in the long term. I suppose time will tell. It usually takes concrete proof before any changes are made but- as the saying goes- by then it is "too little too late."

 

[danvolker]

Florida is the only state with an anti-feeding law and currently it surpasses the WORLD in numbers of shark attacks: 24 last year. Over half of these attacks happen to surfers and none, zero and nada happened to any scuba diver. In fact, it would appear that there are many, many close calls happening to spearos... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sharks+spearfishing It's my opinion that most who oppose shark feedings do so out of simple hysteria, pettiness or professional jealousy. Those are the things you simply don't want to base public policy or science on.

Not to mention the effects here of people like Neil Watson --the head of the Bahamian Dive Association....This is the guy that took a teribly tragic event, as his opportunity to fictionalize a big media event, and use it as a tool we might assume he thought he could steal Abernethy's very large world wide Shark Tourist/photographer base with...many of us feel embarrassed for the membership of the Bahamian Dive Association and the Bahamas Trust, as having a leader that sounds to many, like the pathological Liar on Saturday Night Live----this can't be making them feel very good right now. And many of these people care deeply about Shark conservation, and Watson's fiction based market strategy has a huge potential to severely damage the Shark conservation efforts--the public perception, that so many have worked so hard to develop.
The Fact is, if Watson was successful in fabricating a story that would get the government of the Bahamas to expel JASA and the Shearwater, what he would really be accomplishing, is taking the person that has brought by far the largest Global TV attention for Shark conservation, to the Bahamas....Watson would be removing the guy that has influenced more Tourists to visit the Bahamas with Movies, Films, National Geo and Discovery Channel Specials--than any other operator or person in the Bahamas by a ridiculous margin....This would be like the Bahamas having a 50 million dollar a year Ad campaign for Dive Tourism and Shark Conservation.....and then have Neil Watson try to remove the ad campaign and funding for it!!!!! Way to go Neil ! ... Not...

 

[muzikbiz22]

Also, the study by Neil Hammerschlag and the U of Miami demonstrated that feeding Tigers had no impact on their migration. Thus, why did the Tigers not stay at Tiger Beach where they can obtain easy food? Why are they not staying in the area with the divers that are feeding them?

.

Here is the 4 minute video summation, of that fact-based, scientific study done by Neil Hammerschlag and U of Miami. This is a MUST WATCH, for everyone here, and the rest of the world.

 

[danvolker]

Sorry I should have prefaced my reply that I was speaking only in regard to normal human being not super humans.

What we are NOT talking about is poorly trained OW Divers....divers that get turned out en-mass by the big agencies, and really should have no more than a "Learner's Permit"....
What "we ARE" talking about, are the pro level photographers that frequent Abernethy's boats, Randy Jordan's boats, and other boats that cater to divers that are actually "Advanced Divers".....and this is certainly not to be mis-construed to mean the Advanced Open Water Cert, which offers zero indication of the diver's skills or awareness levels. There is a "common Sense" understanding of an "Advanced diver", someone with thousands of dives, that enjoys dives in challenging conditions, absolutely does not need a dive guide or dive master ( is probably BETTER than many dive guides or Dive Masters), this is a diver that has great peripheral awareness....and that avoids going out on boats that cater to students and novice divers, and would be very annoyed to find themselves on a boat where the captain or crew would presume to direct them in any way, on the basics of safe diving ( how much pressure to come up with, the suggestion that they need to use a buddy they don't know, the list of suggestions crews make to novice divers goes on ad nauseum.

This is likely to describe MANY in this thread, and it describes a very large portion of the shark diving fraternity.

 

[ScubaPink]

I am not going to contribute more the this thread but really felt the need to post a link to a youtube video on an Abernathy dive whereby a diver, our of our camera lens, continues to "pet" the sharks. The gut-wrenching thing is when you see the sharks reaction- eye-rolling to signify aggression.

This "show of affection" from this diver begins at around the 10.19 and happens again at 10:48.

The shark is not enjoying this "petting."

Shark expedition with Jim Abernethy's Scuba Adventures - YouTube

 

[diversteve]

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Anything that does not belong in this A&I thread has been moved here:

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Please keep your posts in this thread focused on the Accident being discussed...or at least somehow related.