Diver in California Sues for Being Left

[Groundhog246]

It's plausible/possible, but should be confirmed. To use your example, I don't have near that many dives, but whenever I'm diving with a new buddy, I've always discussed previous experience. I'll happily dive with almost anyone, ONCE, as long as I think they're capable of safely doing the planned dive. I've had a couple of buddies I'll never dive with again, but most have been okay and a few have been great. And number of dives has not been a determining factor, attitude has proven to be far more important.

I think some operations do not do a good job of describing dive conditions. Using relative terms such as cold water (often used in temperate areas), good vis, 'slight' current, etc do NOT give an accurate indication. Real life example, we were travelling to Prince Edward Island (East Coast, Canada) and contacted a dive shop about charter and shore dive locations/availability. Got some info back, including a Wed eve dive charter that fit well with our plans. Asked about water conditions and was told it was very cold and average vis. What would that mean to you? For me, where I do most of my diving, very cold is mid 40's and below and average vis is 30 feet. I asked them to be more spcific and was told to expect low 60's water temps and 20 to 30 foot vis. So the vis was close to 'average' for around here and temps were in the 'nice' range for around here, for us, it's 7mm wetsuit range. As it turned out, temps were 63/64F and we weere quite comfy in our 7mm one piece wetsuits. We stopped in Kingston on the trip East and bottom temps there (85 to 95 feet) were about 52F (dove 7mm wetsuit and 7mm vests) with surface temps in the low 70's and that's pretty typical late summer temps. So if I was coming out to CA to dive, telling me it's average or warm, cold, strong current, poor vis, that all means absolutely nothing if I don't know what you're comparing to.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

It's plausible/possible, but should be confirmed. To use your example, I don't have near that many dives, but whenever I'm diving with a new buddy, I've always discussed previous experience. I'll happily dive with almost anyone, ONCE, as long as I think they're capable of safely doing the planned dive. I've had a couple of buddies I'll never dive with again, but most have been okay and a few have been great. And number of dives has not been a determining factor, attitude has proven to be far more important.

I think some operations do not do a good job of describing dive conditions. Using relative terms such as cold water (often used in temperate areas), good vis, 'slight' current, etc do NOT give an accurate indication. Real life example, we were travelling to Prince Edward Island (East Coast, Canada) and contacted a dive shop about charter and shore dive locations/availability. Got some info back, including a Wed eve dive charter that fit well with our plans. Asked about water conditions and was told it was very cold and average vis. What would that mean to you? For me, where I do most of my diving, very cold is mid 40's and below and average vis is 30 feet. I asked them to be more spcific and was told to expect low 60's water temps and 20 to 30 foot vis. So the vis was close to 'average' for around here and temps were in the 'nice' range for around here, for us, it's 7mm wetsuit range. As it turned out, temps were 63/64F and we weere quite comfy in our 7mm one piece wetsuits. We stopped in Kingston on the trip East and bottom temps there (85 to 95 feet) were about 52F (dove 7mm wetsuit and 7mm vests) with surface temps in the low 70's and that's pretty typical late summer temps. So if I was coming out to CA to dive, telling me it's average or warm, cold, strong current, poor vis, that all means absolutely nothing if I don't know what you're comparing to.

About 90% of my diving is on shipwrecks between Los Angeles Harbor and the oil rigs Dan was left at. An average dive is 48-53F on the bottom nearly year-round, with surface temps ranging from 50-70F. I consider 20 feet visibility good. Sometimes it can get great, but 10-15 feet is the norm. The oil rigs are near the shelf of an area known as the Huntington Flats. From the mainland to about a mile before the rigs the depth gradually slopes from 55 feet outside the harbor to 150 feet nine miles out. The outside of the rigs drops to several thousand feet. Due to the location the vis is usually better than just a mile away. Vis at the rigs and at the Channel Islands can range from five feet to over 200 feet in the best conditions.

 

[wolf eel]

I thought you all had great viss. If you ever get a chance come on up and have a splash ours is allways 45+.
So did the store report that he was qualified to do the dive ? And how hard of a current was it anyhow I have never heard that ?

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I thought you all had great viss. If you ever get a chance come on up and have a splash ours is allways 45+.
So did the store report that he was qualified to do the dive ? And how hard of a current was it anyhow I have never heard that ?

I don't know if the store reported his qualifications, or if he even told them. I've never been asked about my experience when signing up for a trip. I always take responsibility for my own actions and decisions. As for the current, it didn't seem to affect the other divers. If there had been a strong current, the Captain would never have let anyone in the water, much less made a second offshore dive at the Ace One wreck.

 

[wolf eel]

MaxBottomtime I don't know if the store reported his qualifications, or if he even told them. I've never been asked about my experience when signing up for a trip. I always take responsibility for my own actions and decisions. As for the current, it didn't seem to affect the other divers. If there had been a strong current, the Captain would never have let anyone in the water, much less made a second offshore dive at the Ace One wreck.

I do not mean this as a challenge. I was allways told you had to have a log book to confirm your dives and what you had to say. I take it that is just not so. The current part I have thought about a lot today. I know to some the current may not have been all that bad but was it for him ? I can climb grade 6 ice so if I am climbing grade 3 to me I do not need a rope at all but to some one who can only just climb grade 3 needs a rope and it could be very hard for them. Thats all I ment.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I agree. I believe if Dan felt the current was too strong to swim against, he should not have been in the water to begin with. I think his lack of experience and refusal to swim toward the boat were the main causes of his drifting away. The DM's bad roll calls were the cause of the boat leaving the rigs with a diver still in the water and the search being made at the wrong location. They were each at fault, yet nobody is suing Dan and he has never accepted any responsibility for his own actions.

 

[wolf eel]

yet nobody is suing Dan and he has never accepted any responsibility for his own actions.

Can he be ? Has this been explored at all ?

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Can he be ? Has this been explored at all ?

I think that's the attitude he took. I'm sure the rest of the divers and crew suffered emotional stress that day and the Captain had to surrender his license and hire another captain to do his job during his suspension, but thankfully not everyone is quick to sue someone else.

 

[wolf eel]

but thankfully not everyone is quick to sue someone else

Very true and you are right good thing or we all would be sitting at home all day long. wondering what it would be like to go out and play. But sand may get in your eyes and you may play with a piece of cat crap but that does not mean that the person you are playing with did anything.

 

[Groundhog246]

I believe if Dan felt the current was too strong to swim against, he should not have been in the water to begin with. I think his lack of experience and refusal to swim toward the boat were the main causes of his drifting away.

I don't know Dan and I don't know how strong the current is/was at that site. I do know that I was taught not to attempt to swim against a strong current. And 'strong' was not defined beyond saying that if you did not think you could easily make it not to attempt it as you would expend energy you would need to stay warm. You should instead make yourself as visble as possible (I carry noisemakers, safety sausage, plan to add a mirror and considering a waterproof handheld flare) and wait for the boat to pick you up.

I'm still of the opinion that the shop/the captain/the DM or someone at that level should make sure that all divers on the boat are capable of safely doing the proposed dives, as a diver who has not yet done them is not in a good position to judge their ability to do so. Probably Dan should have asked more questions, so I will let him take a share of that blame. But in the end, they missed him in the count and left the dive site without him and that is inexcusable and whoever 'signed off" on him being aboard before the boat moved should never work in the dive industry again. Harsh, hell yes. Just like som eof the European drinking and driving laws. You get caught once and you get a lifetime driving suspension. They don't get many.