Diver drowns in guided cenote dive

[The Chairman]

Upon successful completion of this course, graduates are considered competent to plan and execute guided tours only in portions of a cavern or cave in which they have completed at least 25 previous dives.

So, would the participants be required to be certified to the level of the overhead they are touring? I would imagine so, but this isn't that clear here. It appears that neither NSSCDS or NAUI allow an instructor to guide people beyond their training level which is what's happening in the cenotes.

 

[Reku]

I think that those operations should at least require cavern certification at a minimum (or more depending on the location). Diving those caverns without either training or experience is like asking to die. How many deaths is it going to take for people to realize that it's not a good idea?

Most cavern certifications only require OW and maybe AOW depending on the agency and some small amount of dives. I don't have much sympathy for untrained or inexperienced divers who die in caves - it was their choice.

The majority of cave diving related deaths are untrained or inexperienced divers - with training or experience your chances of survival go up considerably. I think that guiding divers on dives that they are not capable of doing safely is literally insane.

Honestly I get the feeling that the operations down there sell the idea that those dives are fool proof and safe to do at the OW level and the customers are generally unaware of the dangers involved. You don't know ... what you don't know.

 

[kensuf]

So, would the participants be required to be certified to the level of the overhead they are touring? I would imagine so, but this isn't that clear here. It appears that neither NSSCDS or NAUI allow an instructor to guide people beyond their training level which is what's happening in the cenotes.

No, the 25 times thing is for the guide. Working as a guide, if I want to take someone to the lips, I have to have been there 25 times. If I've only been there 24 times, I can't guide you there. Now let's say I've done 25 dives to the lips but only been to the keyhole 24 times -- I can take you to the lips, but can't take you to the keyhole.

Make sense?

 

[The Chairman]

Make sense?

Actually, I bet with 25 dives in any particular system, you would be allowed to guide the entire system, but that wasn't my real concern.

The problem I see is with the participant. NSSCDS is pretty clear that no matter the level of the guide, the participants have to be certified for the dive they are making. Cavern only need to stick to cavern, intro to intro and so on. Of course, the guide needs to be certified to an appropriate level as well.

In Mexico, non-instructor guides are taking OW divers into the cavern zone and often even beyond. I don't care if they've done that dive a hundred times, non-instructor guides should not take divers beyond their training.

 

[kensuf]

Actually, I bet with 25 dives in any particular system, you would be allowed to guide the entire system, but that wasn't my real concern.

Umm, actually that's incorrect. You can only guide places you've been at least 25 times. Scooter (Sellers, the chair of NAUI Cave Committee) and I had a long discussion about this scenario when I did my Cave 1/TSL Cave Guide ITC.

In Mexico, non-instructor guides are taking OW divers into the cavern zone and often even beyond. I don't care if they've done that dive a hundred times, non-instructor guides should not take divers beyond their training.

The NAUI Cave Guide has to at least be a DM level NAUI member and there are strict standards that have to be adhered to. It's not a bad program for leading cavern tours, the problem is many of the less scrupulous places running tours don't use guides that have any appropriate training.