Diver Died In West Palm Beach, Fl.

[truck1]

Thats a good point that I was about to make on the AED's. You would have to ensure that everyone is in a dry location and we all know that doesn't exist on a dive boat. As for the O2 though, use of the constant flow mask or pocket mask hooked up to an O2 cylinder allows you to force the O2 into the lungs while giving rescue breaths.

Depends on the type of oxygen mask they are carrying.When I did my rescue diver about 3 years ago,the instructor I had was still using what is called a positive pressure or demand type mask.(these are generally not used anymore due to lung over expansion injurues) Which menas that when placed of the victims face, you the rescuer depress a button and oxygen is delivered under force and if everything goes right it gets to the lungs. Heres the problem with that type of mask. The only off switch is when the rescuer takes his/her finger off the button. Too much oxygen and you can harm the lungs.Too little and nothing happens.The best device right now is a bag valve mask with supplimental oxygen hose,which the rescuer squeezes to deliver the oxygen to the victim. It will work without oxygen also.

As for using an aed on a boat, there are a few ways to use one assuming a the boat has one and b it is working order. dry the victim with a towel or towels and place them on something like the engine coverings (which are usually 2 or 3 feet tall anyway) on a 6 pack or a fiberglass bench seat.Be carefull if there are stainless bolts the go thru the seats to a metal bar then the deck,leaving a towell or 2 under teh vic.

2. if there is another boat nearby, put the victim on one boat and the divers on another.then try to find a dry spot.This also give someone who is trained room to work without having to avoid other divers etc.

For all of us who have taken a CPR course lately, you might wnat to check with whomever issued the card. There have been some signifcant changes lately to the order things are done.

With that said, I feel for the family and crew of the boat who were there at the time, and my condolences and best wishes go out to them as well.

Did not mean to hijack the thread.

 

[Missdirected]

That strikes me as odd. Was this her first dive of the day or second? I don't know if you can get Narc'd that fast...
.

Quite common in panic.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Me and my buddy were the only ones in the "class" The other people who were on the boat we all certified, including the victim. This was her first open water dive. I don't want to speculate on what went wrong because I wasn't involved.

All I will say is the crew of the Narcosis and the instructor were very professional and I'm sure did everything possible to avoid the outcome.

This is not the way I wanted to start my diving experience, it was a tragic accident and something I do not wish on anyone. I would think that all who read these forums and post here understand that this is an extreme sport and if you are not careful things can go south real fast.

My instrustor has been diving for 30+ years and she did an AWESOME job training me as she has 100's of other divers. Please don't speculate that it was her fault because she was with me at all times (as she should have been). We still don't know exactly what happened, the paper is saying heart attack, and she was feeling anxious as I stated in my first post.

Oh thanks. that explains a lot. What a way to start your diving career!

 

[Thalassamania]

I really disagree about your assertion that staff must have screwed up,. I can envision many scenarios where the student can engage in a behavoir that is very dangerous and the instructor really can't do too much about.

That was not what I asserted, but for the sake of discussion let's let that go.

It is impractical to think that an instructor can watch 6 or so students and absolutely assure that none will bolt and hold their breath...The idea that the instructor should be able to get the student back to the surface safely, no matter what is a little unrealistic.... I stopped teaching diving because I saw people do too many scary things...

You make my point for me. If that is the duty and if you can not fulfill that duty with six students that you have trained, you screwed up either in their training or in the number you took out. Once again I stress, this is theoretical, we do not have the facts in this case yet.

 

[Diver Dennis]

In my first responder course through the dive shop I asked about AEDs on boats. They said many (most?) small boats don't carry them because there is water everywhere, makes sense to me./QUOTE]



Most AEDs are self grounded and as long as you are not touching the victim, they are safe. You are supposed to dry the victim's chest first but they can be lying on a wet metal floor and there won't be a problem. They only work if there is a shockable rhythm and will analyze the patient before recommending a shock. If the patient is flat line, they are of no help but CPR should be continued to try to get back a shockable rhythm where an AED would be of help.

They are safe in dive boats and the area need not be dry.

 

[El Cid]

III, Congratulations on finishing up your certification. It's unfortunate that you're starting under these circumstances but I'm glad to see that you stuck it out and got the training finished.

Depends on the type of oxygen mask they are carrying.When I did my rescue diver about 3 years ago,the instructor I had was still using what is called a positive pressure or demand type mask.(these are generally not used anymore due to lung over expansion injurues) Which menas that when placed of the victims face, you the rescuer depress a button and oxygen is delivered under force and if everything goes right it gets to the lungs. Heres the problem with that type of mask. The only off switch is when the rescuer takes his/her finger off the button. Too much oxygen and you can harm the lungs.Too little and nothing happens.The best device right now is a bag valve mask with supplimental oxygen hose,which the rescuer squeezes to deliver the oxygen to the victim. It will work without oxygen also.

I just finished my EFR/DAN O2 courses about a month ago and they showed us two medical oxygen regulators. As I understood it, one was the demand valve like you mentioned which was to be used for responsive victims only, and the other was a continuous flow which is for shallow breathing but responsive patients. You could attach the continuous flow hose to a pocket mask though and when you're giving rescue breaths, you integrate O2 into your rescue breathing. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for the info and advice on the AED's though. The one thing that we can all use in incidents like this is to stop and double check ourselves and make sure that we are all able to learn something or at least refresh related (EFR/AED) skills.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Is it common practice for the AED's to no shock he victim if they are flatlined? I was unaware of this. I am not a Paramedic, but wouldn't a shock to reinstate rhythm be preferred?

Thanks guys.

 

[hlsooner]

AED's are only effective for certain types of arrhythmias. The electronics will only deliver a shock for the arrhythmias where it will provide some benefit.

 

[medical1]

That was not what I asserted, but for the sake of discussion let's let that go.
You make my point for me. If that is the duty and if you can not fulfill that duty with six students that you have trained, you screwed up either in their training or in the number you took out. Once again I stress, this is theoretical, we do not have the facts in this case yet.

This was NOT a student. This was a certified diver (Although new) going on a dive trip. The instructors job is to monitoring her STUDENTS per standards as she was doing. The students were her responsibility. The dive instructor is not responsible for every diver on a trip. Just because the instructor was on the same dive boat meant nothing in this situation. Everyone is so quick to try and throw blame before ALL the facts come out.

Truly tragic for everyone. Her husband died a year ago to cancer.
Say a prayer for the 4 children who have now lost both parents. The funeral is Friday 5/9/08

 

[Thalassamania]

This was NOT a student. This was a certified diver (Although new) going on a dive trip. The instructors job is to monitoring her STUDENTS per standards as she was doing. The students were her responsibility. The dive instructor is not responsible for every diver on a trip. Just because the instructor was on the same dive boat meant nothing in this situation. Everyone is so quick to try and throw blame before ALL the facts come out.

Truly tragic for everyone. Her husband died a year ago to cancer.
Say a prayer for the 4 children who have now lost both parents. The funeral is Friday 5/9/08

There are a bunch of unknowns here, which is why we are considering hypotheticals: ... for the sake of discussion let's let that go; If that is the duty; ... this is theoretical; ... we do not have the facts in this case yet; etc.

I stand by my original statement: "If that is the duty and if you can not fulfill that duty with six students that you have trained, you screwed up either in their training or in the number you took out."

My heart goes out to the children. Has a fund been set up that people can contribute to?