Diver Death on the Algol?

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Paul168341
Tom,
Instructor, been diving NE wrecks for 12 yrs. So what? How is that relevant? I think ANYONE is qualified to question the quality of any charter boat. What qualifications does someone need to make a statement about a charter operation which has had a high number of losses? What qualifies you to decide that? What I made was an observation on the fact that the Seeker has had an alarmingly high number of casualties. That is what I find disturbing. I don't think it takes an "expert" to see that something isn't right here.

Paul

I think it takes at least someone who is familiar with the situation, i.e. the boat, the crew, and the dives being conducted to be qualified to be anything beyond background noise. It's very relevant. A recreational diver knows nothing about the type of dives which have resulted in these losses. It's like a Cessna pilot telling an F-14 pilot how to fly.

I don't personally know the captain of this boat but I do know one of his crew and that person is among the most experienced wreck divers anywhere. Your statements comes off as an afront to him as well as the boat and I figured I'd see if you had a clue or were just noise.

Tom

 

[Paul168341]

Interesting point.
However, I'm not questioning the amount of experience anyone involved had, except the diver who was lost. I'm sure that the person whom you know is an extreemly competant wreck diver, so's the captain. But that is not the point. The point is that this particular vessel has had yet another fatality. They may know everything there is to know about the complexities of NE wrecks, but are they assessing and evaluating the people that are going out with them? As I said, I have not dived with the Seeker, I have gone with the R.V. Wahoo, instead. That decision was aided by advise from some well known and trusted captains and master instructors here in the area, also by research.
My sympathies go to your friend, as well as the diver's family. It must be a very difficult situation to endure. I just hope that we all can remember that safety must remain our primary concern.

 

[WreckWriter]

but I also feel that, at some level, divers must take and accept responsibility for their own actions (and qualifications). If the day ever comes that I make my final ascent on a liftbag I would hope that those I leave behind won't go after the boat/crew because I died off their boat.

It behooves noone to allow unqualified divers to do deep dives off their boat (any idea how much hassle a captain goes through after a death?) so I would assume they ensure that the divers are qualified to the best of their ability. You can't force a diver to tell the truth on a medical form or in a logbook. If you push it too hard you end up as unpopular for being too pushie and/or authoritative. It's a fine line.

I admire the NE captains and crews who run to the deep wrecks. It's a damn tough job with an incredible amount of responsibility both personal/moral and legal.

Tom

 

[Paul168341]

I agree with you 100% there, Tom. One thing that worries me is that all it can take is one special interest group, one grieved family, one congressman to decide we need legislation because they don't like the trend that they see. The next thing you know, we end up like Quebec, with the government regulating the sport.
I'm sorry if my first post was a bit brash, it really ****** me off to see this sort of thing happen. I think any facility which has a high number of casualities needs to examine every aspect of their operation to prevent further incidents.

 

[WreckWriter]

Nobody wants legislation.

 

[jbd]

I would think that before anyone looks upon the dive charter in question with doubt as to safety, they should become familiar with the actual cause of the deaths that have occurred. The guy that died recently may well have died if he was at home mowing his lawn or working in his garden. He could've died while driving a car to work.

Boat captains shouldn't be responsible for determining a customers cardiovascular fitness to make a dive unless we want all boat captains to be cardiologists also.

One of the big problems in America is that we all want our freedom but we don't want to accept the responsibility for that freedom. WreckWriter is apparently an exception to this thought.

 

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by jbd
One of the big problems in America is that we all want our freedom but we don't want to accept the responsibility for that freedom. WreckWriter is apparently an exception to this thought.

I've been a diver most of my life, had dangerous jobs for most of it too. I've always felt we should take our own responsibility for things that are voluntary (such as diving). I've done the "dead diver on deck" routine and also have lost friends diving (not diving with me). Sh!t happens, noone wants it to happen. If you ride the goat, accept responsibility if the goat tosses you.

Some of these guys in question, the guys that rode the liftbag for their final ascent, obviously lied on their medical forms. This was their choice. They did it knowing full well why they were doing it, to get somewhere that truth couldn't take them. I understand this. I only wish they had left a note somewhere explaining what they did and why. That would be honorable. To leave the boat hanging is not. Yea, honor is important.

One of the guys on the liftbag list was a friend of mine. He didn't have medical issues, but he screwed up. He made mistakes and he paid for them. He wouldn't have wanted the boat held liable or talked down for his screw up.

Diving is dangerous. Deep diving is more dangerous. Wreck diving is even more dangerous. Deep wreck diving is the most dangerous of all. If you choose to do it, as I do, take responsibility. Talk to your loved ones, let them know the risks, and most of all, for your own sake and that of our sport BE F**KING CAREFUL.

Tom

 

[njdiver1]

Such as when, at what depth, any other details on the victim?

A reference to a newspaper article would be good.

 

[SeaGypsy]

From: mark (invalid@email.address)
Subject: Re: Diver airlifted from The Seeker
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
View this article only
Date: 2002-07-09 00:57:53 PST


Lalin wrote:
>
> I heard that yesterday a diver had to be airlifted from The Seeker in NJ.
> Does anybody have any details of what happened/how is the diver?

I was on the Seeker on Sunday. The diver died enroute to the hospital.

It was a little rough out and apparently he had trouble swimming to the
anchor line. When he got to it I heard that he was trying to hang onto
it on the surface which thrashed him around like a rag doll. I also
heard that he told his buddy to inflate his BC - don't know what
happened after that. But I do know that he never actually descended. I
think he must have had a heart attack or something on the surface. He
was a big guy - I heard 54 yrs old, 240 lbs.

My buddy and I were one of the first one's in (and apparently the only
ones) and did kind of a long dive (110fsw / 65 min runtime) so I had no
idea what was happening above us. When I had reached the surface and was
swimming towards the stern to the ladder one of the mates yelled "GET UP
THE LADDER....... NOW!!!!" I'm thinking "What's this guys problem?".
Which I found out when I reached the top of the ladder and saw that
diver on his back receiving CPR.

I don't think I'll ever forget that sight.

Mark

From: mark (invalid@email.address)
Subject: Re: Diver airlifted from The Seeker
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
View this article only
Date: 2002-07-09 10:07:41 PST


Christopher Painter wrote:
> That sucks. :-( Sounds like a Diver Recall procedure would have been in
> order... but it wasn't your fault.

That's something that would've helped. There were 2 other divers still
in the water by the time the Capt had to release the anchor line to move
the boat for the Coast Guard helicopter. After they took the victim we
had to go back to the wreck site to pickup the other 2.

M

 

[O-ring]

I think he must have had a heart attack or something on the surface. He was a big guy - I heard 54 yrs old, 240 lbs.

...I don't think Cap'n Danny made him eat cheeseburgers for 54 years.

If one expects boats to prevent this type of death the charters are going to have to impose fitness standards on everybody before getting on...let's face it, diving attracts a lot of fat slobs that are too unfit to participate in land based sports (cycling, running, etc.) would you deny them their glory because they are "people of size"??

Other than GUE, I have never heard more than a blurb about fitness mentioned in any training materials or courses...