Divemaster Candidate Teaching Advanced Dive... Acceptable and Normal?

[Mark Duddridge]

I'm going to be taking my Advanced Open Water course this weekend. I was finalizing the course details with the owner of the shop offering the course (who is also an instructor) and one of his Divemaster candidates. The owner of the shop mentioned he would get me to go down with his divemaster candidate while he does his underwater mapping DM exercise in order to fulfill my Underwater Navigation dive requirement.

Isn't it required that a qualified instructor lead the dives that fulfill the open water requirements for an Advanced Open Water course? The divemaster candidate in question is a great guy, but I kind of feel that if I'm paying for an AOW course I should be getting the benefit of instruction from a qualified instructor, not a divemaster candidate. I also don't really see how the DM candidate can do a good job of running me through my underwater nav dive while also doing his own mapping exercises.

In addition to the Underwater Nav, the LDS owner/instructor is getting another instructor to do my Deep and Night dives. Not sure who is going to end up doing my Search and Recovery and Peak Performance Buoyancy dives. The reason the LDS owner/instructor isn't doing more of the AOW dives himself is because he's running the Open Water course he's also offering this weekend.

Maybe I'm expecting too much out of my AOW course, but I kind of get the feeling that the shop owner offering this course sees his role as making sure I can do the basic skills required to pass the course rather than actually teaching me new skills.

So, I guess I have two basic questions.

1. Is it acceptable and normal for someone like a DM candidate to run someone through an AOW dive without an instructor being present on the dive.

2. Is the point of the AOW course (and any other course for that matter) to teach the student new skills or simply a testing process to ensure they are able to successfully complete the course's skill requirements?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts/perspectives on these questions.

 

[Rick Inman]

I believe (PADI) doesn't require an instructor on thoses dives. I did my AOW nav with my buddy and the instructor sat on the beach.

 

[tfsails]

Lessee--you and the DM candidate are both certified divers, right?

I have no doubt that the instructor trusts the DM candidate's judgment concerning u/w navigation and you will not be short-changed regarding your learning this skill. I suspect the instructor will be there with his OW class and can indirectly supervise both you and the DM candidate, which is probably perfectly up to standards.

The DM candidate is training to the first rung of the "diving professional" ladder where the standards are much higher than at the recreational level; he didn't get this far without being a pretty good diver. My advice would be to relax, make the dive, learn the skill, and enjoy yourself. Just because someone isn't an instructor doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[fisheater]

What they said. PLUS, you'll learn a lot about UW mapping. That's a bonus.

 

[Burnsie]

If I am not mistaken, there needs to be some sort of professional with you while you do the UW Nav and all other AOW dives. The thing to remember is, how does the instructor know you can navigate if they aren't there with you? There are several skills you need to do.

It is correct that the instructor can "indirectly" supervise, meaning they are in the area but not on the dive, but you need a certified DM with you or some other Pro.

You are paying for the course. Talk to the instructor and say you would like them to come along.

 

[chrispete]

If I am not mistaken, there needs to be some sort of professional with you while you do the UW Nav and all other AOW dives. The thing to remember is, how does the instructor know you can navigate if they aren't there with you?

For the navigation portion you can tell if someone is on the right track by simply watching the team's bubble trail on the surface. If they make a wrong turn, you'll know about it.

Of course I'm just talking about the nav dive, other dives are different stories.

 

[Burnsie]

Alright, here is a quote right from the instructor manual.


"4. In some situations, it is better to evaluate student diver performance during
this dive from the surface. Prior to the dive, provide each buddy team with a
colored buoy and line to tow (small painted, plastic bottles work well). Observe
the buoys as student divers perform navigation patterns. It is recommended
that a certified assistant accompany each buddy team."


I was wrong in saying that it is required. It's only recommended, which leaves it up to the instructor.

Still, talk to the instructor if you want them along. There aren't many instructors that will say no if you request it.

 

[Trixxie]

The only dives on the AOW class that an instructor needs to directly supervise are:
Deep
EANx*
*If the student has not done any book work before the dive then the instructor who is qualified to teach EANx needs to accompany the student. If the student has done KR #1 then they can go with a certified asst or dive with a nitrox compatible computer. If the student has done both EANx knowledge reviews they don't need to be directly supervised on the dive but on any dive they can not exceed 1.4 PP02 or 60' which ever is less.

A certified asst can supervise Dry Suit, Night and Wreck at a ratio of 4 students to 1 cert asst.

Your instructor (or their cert asst) should also spend some time with you before you get in the water to review the compass, tying knots and using the liftbag.

I did OW and AOW checkouts on the same day but I had a co-instructor and a DM assisting with the students. It's not uncommon to combine different classes during checkouts.

 

[Buoyant1]

For all my AOW checkouts I was paired with a DM candidate. The Instructor stayed above on the NAV dive and watched bubble trails, but came along for the Peak Buoyancy, Deep, Night and was on the platform for the lift bag portion of Search and recovery, during our actual searches, he stayed on shore and watched us from above.

 

[amascuba]

The only dive(s) that an instructor has to have direct supervision for during PADI AOW are the deep dive and the night dive. Everything else can be DM led.