Mike7
Guest
Glad this came up as I am to trying out this option with a princetontec shockwave II torch on a sea&sea arm.
divelight as improvised lighting source
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A watt is a measurement equal to one joule per second. It is a way of describing how much power something has in a given time frame. The time frame is a full second.
If a torch is rated at 50 watts, then it will take one full second to discharge the light equivalent to 50 joules. Again, the point I'm trying to make is that the energy rating is based upon one full second. Let's study that time frame with reference to underwater photography........
A typical camera will have a shutter speed of say for the sake and ease of this discussion, 1/100 second. A torch rated at 50 watts will only give out .5 watts (a half a watt) in that time frame.
How bright is 1/2 watt? A typical night light is 4 watts.
Look at it another way. To take complete advantage of 50 watts of light power offered by the torch, you would have to keep your shutter open for one full second.
An underwater strobe however discharges a great deal more energy than 50 watts in a much shorter time frame, typically between 1/250 and faster!
Have you ever stared at a strobe when it discharges? Slightly brighter than a 50 watt bulb would you say? Think how bright that light would be if you stared at it for a full second!
hth,
b
If a torch is rated at 50 watts, then it will take one full second to discharge the light equivalent to 50 joules. Again, the point I'm trying to make is that the energy rating is based upon one full second. Let's study that time frame with reference to underwater photography........
A typical camera will have a shutter speed of say for the sake and ease of this discussion, 1/100 second. A torch rated at 50 watts will only give out .5 watts (a half a watt) in that time frame.
How bright is 1/2 watt? A typical night light is 4 watts.
Look at it another way. To take complete advantage of 50 watts of light power offered by the torch, you would have to keep your shutter open for one full second.
An underwater strobe however discharges a great deal more energy than 50 watts in a much shorter time frame, typically between 1/250 and faster!
Have you ever stared at a strobe when it discharges? Slightly brighter than a 50 watt bulb would you say? Think how bright that light would be if you stared at it for a full second!
hth,
b
SeaYoda
Contributor
I wonder about the Nocturnal Light set-ups, do they work with the diffuser?
http://www.nocturnallights.com/
Any body know anyone that uses one? I'd be willing to try one out and report on it - are you listening NLI Tim
.
This was taken with just a dive light. It wasn't easy and it's a still subject.
http://www.nocturnallights.com/
Any body know anyone that uses one? I'd be willing to try one out and report on it - are you listening NLI Tim
.This was taken with just a dive light. It wasn't easy and it's a still subject.
Vtdiver2
Contributor
Check Ebay....I've been watching people pick up strobes for $125 for digital cameras, and plan on picking one up soon. Figure out what you want for a strobe, then do a search on Ebay and set it up to email you if one comes available.
Here's a link that compares the different strobes out there. http://www.digitaldiver.net/strobes.php
Good Luck
C-Dawg
Here's a link that compares the different strobes out there. http://www.digitaldiver.net/strobes.php
Good Luck
C-Dawg
Nocturnal Lights
Contributor
Hi SeaYoda,
Thanks for sending me the PM, I'll do the best I can to help you guys answer your questions. We sponsor the video forum and the dive lights forum here on ScubaBoard. A lot of people would use a dive light as a focus light, so your camera knows what to capture. Like Bella said, the 2aa setups will not be sufficient at all. They're really only good for backup lights or lights that you use to look into crevices during the day.
Our lights can be used as a dive light, video light, and a underwater camera light as long as you choose the right setup. As a camera light, you can use 60 degree beam with a diffuser so you can get an even spread of light. For our setups, you can choose a 20w, 35w, or the 50w bulb. The 20w bulb will be good as a focus light and it will be sufficient if you have a strobe or if the pictures are taken during the day. If you're taking photos in complete darkness, you will probably to use a 35w or a 50w bulb to get the best picture.
One of the benefits of using a dive light/video light for underwater photography is that you will eliminate most of the backscatter. When a photo is taken with a flash, everything in front of hte lens will be lit up for a split second, therefore you would really have to play with the position of your lights in order to get a shot w/o any backscatter. On the other hand, if there's a constant light source the exposure can be opened up a little longer, and the tiny stuff that's floating around in front the camera will not be captured.
Stephen Frink (www.stephenfrink.com and www.seacamusa.com) has tested our lights and he loves it. The only complaint that he has is that there is a hotspot when he used our lights as a focus light, but that's before I recommended the bulbs with a wider beam and the diffuser. He also mentioned that the hotspot would show up in the picture becuase it overpowered the strobe. I'm not sure if he was using a 20w or a 50w bulb, but that's always a good thing as long as the beam can get dispursed. Also, he mentioned that he thinks the quipment is too heavy (on land) becuase of the weight limits that he has to deal with when he travels. Other than that Nocturnal Lights would make a pretty good camera light for beginners. If you decide to get a strobe in the future you could still use our lights as a focus light. On top of that you can use them as a video light if you think it's something that you'll be getting into. Other than that, they're great dive lights in general.
Also, if you're using a digital camera, you can use the video lights to make short movies. Some cameras record movies as long as 30 seconds, 3 minutes, or even unlimited recording. It's a pretty cool and cost effective way to capture your experience.
We also have some trays and adapters for the lights, and we work with Ultralight to get ball joint adapters for the more popular housings in the market.
Hartenberger makes some really high end products with great features, but they're extremely expensive. Our products are similar in construction and performance but we don't offer that many features because most divers in the US dont' find those features necessary, on top of that they really add to the cost of production. By the time it gets to the consumer's hands people are just going to say it's too expensive.
I hope this helps answer some of your questions. I understand that price is a problem for a lot of you guys. Check out our site to see if there's any demo units available for sale. We send a lot of lights out to magazines, industry professionals, and other publications for testing and we would clear them out at a discounted price with full warranty, which is 3 months for batteries and 3 years for all other components. Let me know if any of you guys want to give our products a try. We are running a few sales here and you can use the coupon code provided for scuba board members.
Take a minute to read through everything on our site if you're interested in undrewater lighting. We have a lot of information that will help you get a better understanding of underwater lighting.
Thanks for sending me the PM, I'll do the best I can to help you guys answer your questions. We sponsor the video forum and the dive lights forum here on ScubaBoard. A lot of people would use a dive light as a focus light, so your camera knows what to capture. Like Bella said, the 2aa setups will not be sufficient at all. They're really only good for backup lights or lights that you use to look into crevices during the day.
Our lights can be used as a dive light, video light, and a underwater camera light as long as you choose the right setup. As a camera light, you can use 60 degree beam with a diffuser so you can get an even spread of light. For our setups, you can choose a 20w, 35w, or the 50w bulb. The 20w bulb will be good as a focus light and it will be sufficient if you have a strobe or if the pictures are taken during the day. If you're taking photos in complete darkness, you will probably to use a 35w or a 50w bulb to get the best picture.
One of the benefits of using a dive light/video light for underwater photography is that you will eliminate most of the backscatter. When a photo is taken with a flash, everything in front of hte lens will be lit up for a split second, therefore you would really have to play with the position of your lights in order to get a shot w/o any backscatter. On the other hand, if there's a constant light source the exposure can be opened up a little longer, and the tiny stuff that's floating around in front the camera will not be captured.
Stephen Frink (www.stephenfrink.com and www.seacamusa.com) has tested our lights and he loves it. The only complaint that he has is that there is a hotspot when he used our lights as a focus light, but that's before I recommended the bulbs with a wider beam and the diffuser. He also mentioned that the hotspot would show up in the picture becuase it overpowered the strobe. I'm not sure if he was using a 20w or a 50w bulb, but that's always a good thing as long as the beam can get dispursed. Also, he mentioned that he thinks the quipment is too heavy (on land) becuase of the weight limits that he has to deal with when he travels. Other than that Nocturnal Lights would make a pretty good camera light for beginners. If you decide to get a strobe in the future you could still use our lights as a focus light. On top of that you can use them as a video light if you think it's something that you'll be getting into. Other than that, they're great dive lights in general.
Also, if you're using a digital camera, you can use the video lights to make short movies. Some cameras record movies as long as 30 seconds, 3 minutes, or even unlimited recording. It's a pretty cool and cost effective way to capture your experience.
We also have some trays and adapters for the lights, and we work with Ultralight to get ball joint adapters for the more popular housings in the market.
Hartenberger makes some really high end products with great features, but they're extremely expensive. Our products are similar in construction and performance but we don't offer that many features because most divers in the US dont' find those features necessary, on top of that they really add to the cost of production. By the time it gets to the consumer's hands people are just going to say it's too expensive.
I hope this helps answer some of your questions. I understand that price is a problem for a lot of you guys. Check out our site to see if there's any demo units available for sale. We send a lot of lights out to magazines, industry professionals, and other publications for testing and we would clear them out at a discounted price with full warranty, which is 3 months for batteries and 3 years for all other components. Let me know if any of you guys want to give our products a try. We are running a few sales here and you can use the coupon code provided for scuba board members.
Take a minute to read through everything on our site if you're interested in undrewater lighting. We have a lot of information that will help you get a better understanding of underwater lighting.
SeaYoda
Contributor
Thanks for the info Tim.
Is there a link to the review that Stephen Frink did?
Are there any example photos using your lights?
Is there a link to the review that Stephen Frink did?
Are there any example photos using your lights?
Agree. And as Tim points out, there is a way to avoid illuminating the particles that are present in the water column that exists between the camera's lens and the intended target. The technique is sometimes referred to as "painting with the edges of light" that emanate from the external strobe. In this way, only the target is illuminated, not the water column between the lens and subject (the capturing of backscatter is not as prevalent in close distance macro photography, which is why strobes may be placed closer to the lens in that instance).
The problem with illuminating particles in the water column between the lens and subject is that they are captured out of focus, which, due to their subsequent fuzziness, actually increases the particles in size when captured by the sensor or film. So it is a good idea to avoid illuminating them.
What I'd like to point out though is that the use of a dive light to illuminate the composition as explained does have drawbacks.
The dive light in this example becomes similar to "ambient light". Light that is naturally present (as opposed to artificial strobe light that is on only for an instant).
Relatively speaking, that amount of light still pales in comparison to what an external strobe can instantaneously offer. This is why Tim correctly suggests to open the aperture along with his other suggestion, to choose a relatively slower shutter speed ("opened up a little longer" ).
By doing both these actions in an attempt to control (expose) the foreground of the composition, the photographer has now sacrificed all creative control of the background exposure.
When introducing any artificial light to the composition, underwater photography becomes the act of taking two images at once, the foreground image and the background image. The foreground in this case can be defined as any part of the composition that is influenced by artificial light (an external strobe or dive light). The background can be defined as that which is only illuminated by ambient light, the light that exists naturally in the composition, the surrounding area.
The photographer controls the foreground exposure by selecting the proper intensity of artificial light (by duration, diffusion, strobe to subject distance, etc) along with an appropriate aperture (f/stop). The background exposure is controlled solely by that same aperture choice and the option of choosing any shutter speed that will not affect the sync speed of the strobe. A fast shutter will allow less light to enter the lens, resulting in a darker background capture. A slower shutter speed will allow more light to enter, resulting in, depending on water quality, a lighter, bluer background. The choice is up to the photographer. (as long as the shutter speed chosen does not adversely affect the sync speed of the strobe (clip the strobe's output, etc), there will be no effect on the foreground exposure.)
So by transferring the responsibility of the shutter to aid in control of the foreground image, the photographer now has lost creative control of the background exposure.
Most photographers imho would find this sacrifice unacceptable.
In no way am I commenting on the quality of Tim's product. My comments strictly are a dive light versus a strobe.
Nocturnal Lights
Contributor
Thanks for the additional info guys.
Because I simply wanted Steve's opinion, I didn't ask him to post his review anywhere. Here's some of his comments from from his email:
As you can see, he has a problem with the weight of the lamp because he travels a whole lot and weight (above water) is a big thing for him.
I agree with bobf. The light output on a dive light does not come close to the light output from a strobe during the split second that it goes off. The best setups really depends on the context of the picture. Our lights will be sufficient for most closeup pictures, such as the one that SeaYoda posted but with a more even light distribution. Depending on the visibility, you can get a "bigger picture" with a dive light.
See if you can imagine a snapshot from an underwater video, that's how the picture would come out if you didn't use a strobe or the flash on your camera. Or better yet, just imagine taking a picture of what you are able to see by using a dive light without a flash. That's pretty much the picture you're going to get. Ultimately, if you're really serious about underwater photos you should invest in a strobe. I can't say that I'm an expert in underwater photography so I'm going to let real experienced photographers such as bobf give you guys more input.
Our systems offers a lot of flexibility in terms of the light color, intensity (wattage), and the beam angle. If you do decide that you still want to give it a shot, try our lights because they're one of the brightest halogen dive lights. If you decide to get a strobe later on, you can still use our lights as a focus light or a primary dive light. On top of that we have some arms and trays that will work with nearly all the camera housings out there. Send me a PM and let me know if you want to give our lights a shot, I can put some awesome packages together for you guys with the trays and arms
Because I simply wanted Steve's opinion, I didn't ask him to post his review anywhere. Here's some of his comments from from his email:
As you can see, he has a problem with the weight of the lamp because he travels a whole lot and weight (above water) is a big thing for him.
I agree with bobf. The light output on a dive light does not come close to the light output from a strobe during the split second that it goes off. The best setups really depends on the context of the picture. Our lights will be sufficient for most closeup pictures, such as the one that SeaYoda posted but with a more even light distribution. Depending on the visibility, you can get a "bigger picture" with a dive light.
See if you can imagine a snapshot from an underwater video, that's how the picture would come out if you didn't use a strobe or the flash on your camera. Or better yet, just imagine taking a picture of what you are able to see by using a dive light without a flash. That's pretty much the picture you're going to get. Ultimately, if you're really serious about underwater photos you should invest in a strobe. I can't say that I'm an expert in underwater photography so I'm going to let real experienced photographers such as bobf give you guys more input.
Our systems offers a lot of flexibility in terms of the light color, intensity (wattage), and the beam angle. If you do decide that you still want to give it a shot, try our lights because they're one of the brightest halogen dive lights. If you decide to get a strobe later on, you can still use our lights as a focus light or a primary dive light. On top of that we have some arms and trays that will work with nearly all the camera housings out there. Send me a PM and let me know if you want to give our lights a shot, I can put some awesome packages together for you guys with the trays and arms
OP
Spoon
Contributor
wow tha ks for the additional info guys!
Nocturnal Lights
Contributor
N/P, if you guys would like more information on dive lights etc. please feel free to ask me
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