Dive shop requirements for equipment purchases

[Wookie]

Try to go diving off of Wookie's boat without showing a c-card. Mel wouldn't stand for it.

Strictly an insurance company requirement which I have fought for years. I miss a lot of business with the Special Forces at Fleming Key and at Truman Annex who might want to go for a fun dive on their Mk-16's. I am not allowed to take them under any circumstances because they don't have a recognized certification. I had a British SF diver show up who wanted a recreational dive with his GF. She had a BSAC card, he had a logbook with 10,000 dives in it. I was not able to accept the logbook as proof of certification. At the end of the day, my pen power as a PADI instructor saved the day!!! He wasn't trying to dive a rebreather, however, which I could not have certified him on.

 

[OldNSalty]

Yup... liability has gotten way out of hand in this country. When you can spill scalding hot coffee all over your self and not only sue someone else for it, but sue someone else for it and win with a $640,000 dollar award, then something is seriously wrong with the system.

If you are talking about the famous McDonalds coffee then that would not be a great example. They made their coffee at temps far above what would be reasonable and the spill caused 3rd degree burns (worse possible). The woman asked the company to cover her medical expenses (about 20k for, you know, skin graphs and such). When I hear people talking about corporate responsibility I expect the company to step up tot he plate in this case. They decided not to, I think most people would have assumed some responsibility and tried to work things out. The clowns decided they had more money and a longer life then the old woman and told her not to wash her crotch in coffee. she sued-good for her. The award was large-good for all of us because next time maybe they will think about doing the right thing when they contributed to injuring someone.

 

[The Chairman]

Strictly an insurance company requirement which I have fought for years.

Yet, unless you certify them as divers, they can't dive off of your boat. Would you even think of offering this waiver (of sorts) to someone who had never been diving or who could not show that they had been diving? BTW, how often has the insurance company inspected your logs to check for compliance? You're a great captain and you spend a lot of every day analyzing and mitigating your exposure to risks: physical, financial and legal risks included.

Again, I have no problems with a shop owner who reduces their profit margin and sticks to their principles instead. Thwy put their money where their mouth is, and I like that. Kudos to them, whomever they are.

 

[blc]

Thanks for all your responses. They have confirmed what I thought. My issue here is not that will not sell certain equipment with out certs it more the way they explained it. I would have been perfectbly comfortable if they said something like, this is our store policy or is out insurance requiment etc and would not have given the matter a second thought. They were polite and helpful.

As far as my certifications I began diving around 1965 with a older high school buddy. I doubt if there was a certifiction program within a 200 miles of me at the time. I later in 1969 received formal training in the USMC. I never had PADI or any kind of civilian certs. The dive shops (lol only 2 at the time) I used all knew me and accepted my dive log as proof of experience. That was not an unusul pratice back during that time frame. All my dive gear (3 complete sets) was stolen in a motel Fla around 1985 along with my log books and i just quit diving altogether after that.

With some a long gap in diving experience, newer equipment and advancing age I had personally decided (before i even visited a LDS) to do a complete certification program before i started back. I feel the need at my age to review training and re-evaluate my dive limits throughly as I am not lets say a spring chicken anymore .

 

[Crowley]

There is liability involved in this - of course there is - accident claims lawyers make fortunes out of people who get whiplash because they had to stop suddenly to avoid a passing badger and the government should be responsible for keeping woodland animals underground at night. That's the way the world has become. Diving didn't make it this way, but the dive industry has to exist by promoting an activity that could - and does - have fatal consequences, within a litigious world that rewards abrocation of personal responsibility by giving people money for having accidents.

Some dive shops adhere more strictly to recommendations from training agencies because - yup - this is covering their backsides. There is also the possibility that other local regulations may be in place. Take a driving analogy - you don't need a driver's license to buy a car, but if you want to drive it out of the shop, then I need to see some paperwork.

There is no reason that a non-certified diver, by any agency standard, should not be allowed to purchase scuba equipment. Maybe that's just the husband or wife of a diver buying them a new regulator for their partner's birthday, but it's also possible that local regulations do, indeed, prevent the sale of "life support equipment" to unqualified personnel. SCUBA is, by default, a life support system.

I do think that some rules and regulations are a bit daft, but sadly, covering of backsides is a requirement of existing in the modern world. Some will interpret the rules with more severity than others. Some lawyers are apt to do the same thing.

My grandfather was one of many British service personnel from WWII who learned to drive everything from jeeps to tanks on the battlefields of northern Europe, but after 30-odd years of driving without a license, he was forced - by government regulations - to sit a driving test, probably conducted by somebody who learned how to handle an SUV in the suburbs, and who is the better driver? They guy with a license who passed yesterday, or the guy who learned to dive back when diving was more science than holiday romance.

But - the rules say you have to have a card to dive here - so - there it is.

For the OP - after a 25 year hiatus, for sure I would recommend some form of review. If you just need a license, then enquire into the possibility of an "experienced diver" program. A lot has changed over the years, and you would not be the first experienced diver I have seen who chose to sit a current OW class.

Cheers

C.

 

[Searcaigh]

Take a driving analogy - you don't need a driver's license to buy a car

Sorry to digress but you do need a drivers license to buy a car in some ME countries, Saudi and UAE to name two that I have lived in.

 

[Them]

Sorry to digress but you do need a drivers license to buy a car in some ME countries, Saudi and UAE to name two that I have lived in.

Weird. So businesses can't own vehicles in those places? Or do they have corporate driver's licences?

 

[Searcaigh]

Weird. So businesses can't own vehicles in those places? Or do they have corporate driver's licences?

Business owned vehicles are a separate issue altogether, the rule applies to private individuals.

However back on topic, I commend the OP for taking steps to get back into scuba diving and take some refresher training etc., I am sure that some of your Marine Corps training of swimming underwater for 100 yds with a knife held by your teeth is not applicable though

 

[Them]

Business owned vehicles are a separate issue altogether, the rule applies to private individuals.

Looking on the Saudi gov website, they don't mention the requirement. Looking on other websites several mention that women can own cars but are not allowed to drive in sa.

 

[Searcaigh]

Looking on the Saudi gov website, they don't mention the requirement. Looking on other websites several mention that women can own cars but are not allowed to drive in sa.

Take it from me, as a foreigner in these countries you cannot buy a car without first having a local driving license

In Saudi locals can own whatever they want, but women have to hire drivers to drive their own cars. It was really interesting to see Female military women driving in Riyadh during Gulf War 1, the Mutawas (religious police) were going crazy, mind you they were about the only civilian Saudis left in Riyadh, then when it really started and the SCUDs started landing about us, then they disappeared too