Dive schools VS Local dive shops.

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mrstein

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I havent seen a post like this in Some while?

How good is the Training to become a Top Instructor Going thru a Top School such as HALLS in florida or Mermaids in Thailand VS

The local dive shop

School"s are about 8 grand to 18 grand Halls in FL is 18 grand for full course 14 weeks.

LDS are about 4000 grand .......

I am being told that the School training BLOWS away any local shop training........

Also as far as placement in the Field How much can you demand with a Great school behind you VS a Dive shop ?

INPUTT .........................

Mrstein
 
I think I saw in Halls you can be an instructor in like 10 days (after you have DM or equivalent) ...seems a little fast to me. They must have great training, or they wouldn't still be in business, and no one would be hiring the instructors from there. I've thought about doing it after I get my Divecon from my LDS.
 
The LDS here on Maui that does most of the Instructor training for PADI completes their course I believe in 8 days plus 2 more for testing... don't know what that means... but about the same time frame.
 
A Hall's graduate could come to Kona today and maybe get a 10-20K a year job. A LDS graduate from outside Kona could come to Kona today and maybe get a 10-20K a year job. An instructor in Kona with years of local experience could quit his job, and then maye find a 10-20K a year dive job. They could all demand much more, but they're not going to get it. The resident instructor is gonna be the first one to get a local job though, unless he's got other issues.

My basic point is, placement in a job that'll actually support you is not really guaranteed. I suspect your best bet is to get your instructor's ticket in the region you plan on trying to become employeed. Hall's will give you a great looking resume but not guarantee anything. It may get your foot in more doors than getting your instructor's certification somehwhere in the middle of the US might. This business is funny, in many cases it's more timing, luck and perseverence than anything - but that'll still land you only the going rate locally.

Maybe it's different elsewhere.

later,



mrstein:
I havent seen a post like this in Some while?

How good is the Training to become a Top Instructor Going thru a Top School such as HALLS in florida or Mermaids in Thailand VS

The local dive shop

School"s are about 8 grand to 18 grand Halls in FL is 18 grand for full course 14 weeks.

LDS are about 4000 grand .......

I am being told that the School training BLOWS away any local shop training........

Also as far as placement in the Field How much can you demand with a Great school behind you VS a Dive shop ?

INPUTT .........................

Mrstein
 
kent_1848:
I think I saw in Halls you can be an instructor in like 10 days (after you have DM or equivalent) ...seems a little fast to me. They must have great training, or they wouldn't still be in business, and no one would be hiring the instructors from there. I've thought about doing it after I get my Divecon from my LDS.

As kidspot mentions, a lot of schools and resort area dive shops offer an IDC (Instructor Development Course) which takes DM or equivalent divers and basically focuses on training them how to teach courses. At that level it's less focused on learning new scuba information, more focused on training you how to present scuba information to others. The typical IDC is 7-10 days, 8-11 hours a day. Most of it is classroom time, with a couple hours daily in the water also. You generally are given homework, books to read, presentations to plan, etc to work on before your next day. It's a busy 7-10 days. This is followed by your IE (Instructor's Examination) given by personnel from the Agency itself. The meat and potatoes of dive training is done outside the IDC.
 
True ,,,,,,however if a Realy good employer is looking for Top shelf people I am sure that the training from a Top notch school would prevail over a LDS .......

How many True instructors really Know that they are Doing if they are trained by someone who doesnt know himself the Correct ways ???????

I just dont think the ENTIRE TRUTH is being told by many folks at all.......

I think there are many good jobs outthere But many folks are Afraid of Good stiff competion from a Diver who is trained 100%%% in all aspects.

I AM not trying to favor the Dive school However I think a school that is setup for everything HAS A HUGE Advantage over a LDS.

I just think its something to chew on thats all........

Mrstein
 
I agree that the dive school will likely produce a well trained insturctor. I agree that those instructors might find work more readily than one trained at a LDS. Whether ANY instructor is in the scuba business as their main source of income 2 years after they graduate is a longshot, no matter where they were trained, from what I've seen in my area.

The reality of it is, at least in our area, that most employers have a few long term people that are off limits to being replaced, and then a whole bunch of part-time transient type instructors. During the slow seasons, guess who's struggling to find work. The full time guys I know are still making only somewhere around 20K here.

What "entire truth" are you looking for? I'd be happy to share my thoughts.

Steve

mrstein:
True ,,,,,,however if a Realy good employer is looking for Top shelf people I am sure that the training from a Top notch school would prevail over a LDS .......

How many True instructors really Know that they are Doing if they are trained by someone who doesnt know himself the Correct ways ???????

I just dont think the ENTIRE TRUTH is being told by many folks at all.......

I think there are many good jobs outthere But many folks are Afraid of Good stiff competion from a Diver who is trained 100%%% in all aspects.

I AM not trying to favor the Dive school However I think a school that is setup for everything HAS A HUGE Advantage over a LDS.

I just think its something to chew on thats all........

Mrstein
 
Instructor training is precscribed by the various agencies and follows a rote pattern. Regardless of where you go to become an instructor, you will study the same materials and be evaluated in the same way. IMHO operations such as Hall's are "Instructor Mills" and DO NOT produce a "top notch" candidate. When you go to one of these schools, you are evaluated as a diving professional over a period of about 10 days. When you go the LDS route, you generally come up through the ranks from Divemaster and Assistant Instructor, spending time at each level perfecting your teaching methods and skills in internships. The ITC staff will generally know you, as well as your strengths and weaknesses, quite well by the time you complete your ITC.

Hope that helps.
 
mrstein:
True ,,,,,,however if a Realy good employer is looking for Top shelf people I am sure that the training from a Top notch school would prevail over a LDS .......

How many True instructors really Know that they are Doing if they are trained by someone who doesnt know himself the Correct ways ???????

I just dont think the ENTIRE TRUTH is being told by many folks at all.......

I think there are many good jobs outthere But many folks are Afraid of Good stiff competion from a Diver who is trained 100%%% in all aspects.

I AM not trying to favor the Dive school However I think a school that is setup for everything HAS A HUGE Advantage over a LDS.

I just think its something to chew on thats all........

Mrstein

Hmmm ... the "entire truth" is a pretty broad topic. Not sure it can be covered in just one thread.

I worked with a Hall's grad once. He was a decent instructor ... but not as good as some I've worked with. What he lacked was context ... his entire diving career was focused on becoming an instructor, and in a lot of practical ways he wasn't nearly the diver that many of my non-instructor friends are. So, would he be considered top-notch? His resume looked pretty good, but in the water he wasn't real solid. He just didn't have adequate diving experience. He knew how to run a class, what the standards were, how to present class material and how to do basic skill demonstrations in the pool. But in the Open Water, something was lacking.

Part of the "entire truth" is that teaching solid diving skills entails first learning solid diving skills ... and that takes bottom time. You can't learn solid diving skills in 10 weeks, even with total immersion. Diving institutes don't really teach you how to be a solid diver ... they teach you the basics of recreational diving ... then they teach you how to teach those skills to people who know less than you do.

Another part of the "entire truth" is that most potential employers really won't care ... they're more interested in how fast you can turn a class around, or how good you are at selling the LDS for gear purchases or continuing education than they will be in how good you are at actually teaching students to be proficient in the water. If you can manage a class of 20 students, that'll be a big selling point. Whether or not any of those students manage to graduate with solid buoyancy skills, good trim in the water, or decent basic skills probably won't be a big part of the job interview.

Another part of the "entire truth" is that only a tiny fraction of people who sign up for a diving class are really interested in acquiring top-notch skills. The majority want a class that's quick and cheap. That's what sells, and that's what your potential employer will be looking for you to sell ... which is why the pay is so low.

If you're truly interested in becoming an instructor, you need to understand some realities, and consider them in the context of what it is you really want to do.

If you want to work in a resort, understand that the vast majority of your students will be resort divers ... people who dive very occasionally, have maybe a week or two, want to spend as little of that time in class as possible, and only want to learn enough to follow a divemaster around without hurting themselves. Being a top-notch instructor simply doesn't enter into that equation ... unless by that you mean knowing how to manage a class so as to move it along as quickly as possible without violating any agency standards.

If, on the other hand, you're really interested in becoming a top-notch instructor and turning out students with solid skills, then be prepared to put some time and effort into developing those skills yourself. Then be prepared to not make a whole lot of money, because you will be serving a niche market. As you develop a reputation for teaching solid skills you will eventually develop a following ... but it takes time.

If you really are interested in being a top-notch instructor, there is no fast-track.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 

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