Dive Master

[O-ring]

practicing your skills will make you a better diver but one does not have to spend $500 on a DM class to do that.

Agreed. I spent $300 on a DIRF to do that already .... and I practice a lot.

hey O-ring, exactly who's gear are you lugging around anyway

Mostly my own, but occasionally helping students out with theirs.

and yes i am having fun helping with classes despite the fact i dont agree with the way they are being taught

Agreed. I don't like everything, but I understand how the industry plays it so I am willing to play along. However, in the open water portion of the class its doubles, bp/wing, and long hose...raises lots of questions and gives lots of time to explain why to do it "this way"*.

* - DISCLAIMER - I said "this way" not the "right way".

 

[Scottri]

I think it all depends on your motivation. If you want to just collect cards, it's not really worth the time and money. If you enjoy diving and working with others it's great. I really enjoy working with students. I get a lot of satisfaction from teaching people that are having problems and seeing the look on their face when the complete a difficult skill. If your motivation is to make money, forget it. I don't make enough to even pay my expenses. If you pay attention and work hard it will make you a better diver. At least it did for me. It made me think about the way I do things and why I do them. It also made me aware of how much new divers look up to DM's. It honed my skills and I learned some new ones such as working with people, empathy and patience.

If you decide to take the class relax, enjoy and try to pass on the love for the sport.

The class itself is what you put into it. If you want you can blow right through it. I did mine as both classroom and and intern program. I got benefit from both.


Good luck.

Scott

 

[sheck33]

O-ring once bubbled...


* - DISCLAIMER - I said "this way" not the "right way".

 

[neil]

sheck33 once bubbled...

and yes i am having fun helping with classes despite the fact i dont agree with the way they are being taught ut:

I could ask: "who the heck are YOU to agree or disagree with the way they teach?" . Instead, I say,
That's an interesting comment. I expect any DM candidate I teach to question everything I do (at an appropriate time). Why don't you ask the instructor you work with why they are teaching that way? I am constantly re-thinking how I teach and welcome questions that help me figure out new and better ways. Just be polite and respectful and you may get some reasonable explanations. If you don't ask and just assume all the time, you are wasting your time, IMO.

I like the fact that you enjoy assisting classes. That's the most important thing for a DM. It's not supposed to be drudgery. My DMs don't carry gear, the students do.

Neil

 

[sheck33]

neil once bubbled...


I could ask: "who the heck are YOU to agree or disagree with the way they teach?" . Instead, I say,
That's an interesting comment. I expect any DM candidate I teach to question everything I do (at an appropriate time). Why don't you ask the instructor you work with why they are teaching that way? I am constantly re-thinking how I teach and welcome questions that help me figure out new and better ways. Just be polite and respectful and you may get some reasonable explanations. If you don't ask and just assume all the time, you are wasting your time, IMO.

Neil

I am the guy that is helping and liable, i have every right to question the way things are done when it involves ME doing them! How can i sincerely help when i feel that certain things that are done or left out is doing a disservice to the students?
i am the guy that spent a lot of money on a DM class
i am the guy that volunteers a LOT of time doing all this and i am not paid to do it. And i have to deal with a diveshop that bluntly tells me not to show up on the beach with certain gear only because they dont sell it YET they have no problem with a DM that had a clusterf*** of gear, but it's a mess of gear that they sell so it's ok. Needless to say they can go F*** themselves.

instructors are not gods, i have respect for good instructors but i still dont take everything they say as gospel, i have heard instructors say enough stuff to students that is simply wrong. And i have no respect for the bad instructors out there.

I am by NO means a dive god that knows it all but having one or more instructor c-cards doesnt mean that they know what they are doing either. I sometimes wonder if instructors realize how much influence they have on students, students will imitate everything.

getting an instructor c-card isnt the hard part, being a good instructor IS. I have questioned instructors and the answers were not very satisfying. Although i also realize instructors are limited by what they can do by there agency.

you may wonder why i still do it, a few reasons: i do still enjoy doing it, i can show them alternate ways of doing some things without it contradicting or interfering with the instructor, i get to dive and practice my skills. If they ask me after a class what to do next, i ask them what it is they want to do, breathe underwater or learn how to dive and i'll answer them accordingly.



:boozer:

 

[MikeFerrara]

Many, including DM’s underestimate the role of a DM. A DM should be an active member of a teaching team. The DM’s who work with me are extremely accomplished divers and have learned much about being educators. We have regular, what we refer to as, staff meetings. Usually over dinner we talk in depth about how we teach and the results both in general and with respect to individual students. All make suggestions for changes. We complement each other for things done well and tease each other over screw-ups. The OW class we teach is like none I have ever seen. I initiated the changes in the beginning but our DM’s immediately became very excited and jumped right in with innovations of their own. Since then much that we have accomplished I must credit to them.

During a class I am busy so much of the personality of the class comes from the DM’s. Our DM’s take the initiative to invite new divers to go diving and continue to help them along. They are extra sets of eyes and extra brains.

While I will not tolerate a public contradiction from a DM, I don’t do it to them either. The only exception would, of course, be when it affects safety.

Our DM’s are not only a vital part of our teaching team they also make up our primary dive team. We work well together whether teaching an OW class or doing a cave dive.

They don’t get a paycheck, However, I want to change that. In the case of my DM’s these are educated professionals who could easily find other things to do. They have continued their education as divers and I probably could not, in short order, replace them. I could not teach the class I do without them. My students would suffer as a direct result of not having them. Given the way we teach I could not just take in any DM off the street. Anyone who would expect divers of this caliber to work for free, in my judgment, does not deserve the privilege of diving.

This is one of the major failings of the dive industry. Course price structure should provide a descent wage for divers of this caliber. This would represent a price hike like most could not imagine. The fact that it doesn’t is why there just are not many of them.

If you don't agree with the way teaching is done in the classes you work, your team has it all wrong.

 

[sheck33]

Mike, your post made me feel a lot better

 

[bailiff]

I just started the PADI DM program this year also. I really enjoy working with some of the new students and going back out on the check out dives. I still think my favorite's must be the Rescue check out and deep dive advanced.....I go to every one I can...
.....it takes alot of time and sometimes you get run around by some of the instructors...but I guess that's part of it.....
a lot of the classroom part is coming up in Oct....so we'll see how that goes...

anyway....bottom line...it's been great so far...and i really feel like I have taken my diving to another level.

Bailiff

 

[ebbtide]

well all

first i want to thank everyone for there opnion, weither it be negitave or not .

ive learned allot this past month couple weeks on diving theroy ,
practices etc etc . and the biggest thing ive found is attitude .
face it you are diving beacuse you love it otherwise you wouldent be doing it , the next best thing is seening the smile on the face of a student who just went for there first OW dive .

and as for the carrying of gear i see what you mean (haha) .
but as with anything and as it was said b4 you get out of it what you put into it , no 1 way is better than annother if you are puttning you 100% into it .

They don’t get a paycheck, However, I want to change that. In the case of my DM’s these are educated professionals who could easily find other things to do. They have continued their education as divers and I probably could not, in short order, replace them. I could not teach the class I do without them. My students would suffer as a direct result of not having them.

i have to agreewith you mike .

sheck33 you have some points too

I am by NO means a dive god that knows it all but having one or more instructor c-cards doesnt mean that they know what they are doing either. I sometimes wonder if instructors realize how much influence they have on students, students will imitate everything. getting an instructor c-card isnt the hard part, being a good instructor IS

as for me it isnt about money beacuse if it was i wouldent be dive master,ing at all .
this summer ive worked at the LDS filling tanks, pulling in long hours when people just wernt diving talking to tourest and the general public . orgnazing dives to wrecks and other places , and just having fun . the owner of the LDS is currently on his IDC/IE
and i dont see myself going that route for a long time , i am happy to be just the fellow who is always there for a dive 30 minutes early to get tanks ,spare gear ,reliese forms etc. making phone calls to club members to orgnize dives and keep the peace when someone steps on a mask .
and all this is done so that i can better myself as a diver and as a person, thanks all for venting and reading
see you in the water
Rob