I have been pondering this for some time now and I wanted to get thoughts from a broader audience, particularly instructors. I did my PADI OW cert for $350 as a resort course 10 years ago. That was the all in price and was 8-12 for 4 days if I recall. That did all of my CW and OW diving. I did the book work each night, took the quizzes and reviewed them first thing each morning, and the final exam took me about 30 mins. I know the thought for these type certs has a reputation for not producing great divers and/or not fully preparing them will all the practice they need to be safe divers without a professional watching over them. This was 10 years ago for me. I may just be lucky in that I feel like my instructor was good, and I was prepared. Perviously I had taken a 12 week course in college that was 4 hours an evening two nights a week that covered far more than current PADI OW covers today. I just never did the check dives. I am sure that helped a lot with my course. I liked him well enough to go back a few years later and got the same instructor to certify my wife. Recently I went to a shop in RTB to get my daughter certified and that all in cost was $450, which is not too far off from when i did it, and there are other shops that were cheaper. That didn't work out for a couple reasons out of our control.
So I came back and went to my LDS and things are much, much more expensive. We are doing the cert because after 3 attempts now we just want to get through it so we can go dive, but I am having a hard time seeing why there is such a vast difference in price. The all in cheapest option for PADI is $1050 and SDI $950 and thats for checkouts in a cold quarry, If I want to do them in a FL spring it's and extra 50 or so. These prices include a $250 snorkel, mask, fins, booties, bag and defogger credit. So for PADI it is $850 for the confined water portion with the above basic kit, and tanks, eights and gear are include for pool sessions. The 4 checkout dives cost form 200-250 depending on the site and do not include any equipment you have to rent BCD wetsuit etc. I had all our equipment and I had the manuals so I was charged 600-125 for the materials credit, then 250 for the OW dives. So right at 725 for us. When I compare this to what I can get elsewhere, just wow. I could have gone with a different shop around Atlanta for cheaper but I stuck with this LDS because it was more convenient. In the end it turned out not only to be a lot more money but also not any more convenient because the local pool had issues and we had to drive just as far as if I had gone to the other dive shop. Now after we get through this OW cert this LDS is not going to be my LDS anymore if these will be the kinds of prices I can expect to see for advanced, nitrox, etc.
Now that I have set the picture, The quality of the instruction is important to me, and I get that that quality instructors get paid more. I am not discounting the instruction at this shop, they do care about instruction, and where very good with my daughter, however that's a pretty steep premium for what you get. They taught the same standards as I was taught, plus a few skills that are not required but are good to have. The instructor taught additional skills of safety buoy inflation at the surface, removal and replacement of gear at depth, and at the surface, and task loading while navigating (navigating while using oral inflation to adjust depth). I appreciate those extra skills as I think they are valuable skills, and he would not have taught them I would have, butt....
I am having a hard time justifying double the price because they are nice and patient people. In fact my philosophy on scuba certs and really anything I do is that minimum standards are not what should be strived for. They are minimum standards. For prices like that I want to be taught to minimum and beyond, not just a few extra skills, I want to be taught to be a great diver, as safe diver, a skilled diver. I personally had no challenges with any of the skills taught to me in my course, though I understand that many do and require the extra time. If an instructor teaches me a skill and I do not have a problem with it, then let's spend some time on how do we make it better than minimum standard, maybe how can we combine that with another skill, or focus on something they notice could be better. Minimum standard is like going through school happily getting D's in all classes. I don't want anything less than an A, for me or my family. I am someone that seeks out the extra information and tries to learn everything I can about a topic I find interesting.
I know PADI is pretty darned regimented in what and how they do things partly because we live in a society where everyone is so quick to sue instead of taking personal responsibility. Do I need to look at other agencies? Maybe I just need to get some recommendations on some good independent instructors that are known for producing excellent divers, and going above and beyond the minimum standard. At these rates, and learning the same thing at the $450 dive op verse the $900 shop, I can just take a vacation and go to a cool place for each cert and almost come out even with a vacation to boot. What am I missing here, does everyone else have this wide variability in training between land locked shops verse those nearer the prime diving locations? Is it just lack of competition? I don't want to come across as just shopping price because I am willing to pay for quality. There is a balance between price and quality and for higher prices I expect more. I also want to support my LDS if I can so I have local resources, but I'm not trying to fund a second vacation home for them.
Another gripe I've got is that all the skills are being taught kneeling on the bottom. I learned that way, but know that if someone had spent extra time to get me to do them neutrally buoyant I would have been a better diver sooner. If things are overwhelming maybe you start that way but by the end of the class things really should be in the neutral position for all skills. I asked both instructors current and former why they are teaching the skills kneeling, and they looked at me a bit goofy and said they need to because it is easier for the student. It doesn't push the student though, and it doesn't create real world situations for the student. if someone kicks off your mask and knocks your reg out I can guarantee you wont be kneeling in the sand, and you wont be trying to get there to recover either. I want all future instruction for me, my daughter and other family to be taught neutral. Someone please let me know either who the really, really good instructors are that will sit down and try to understand my goals, what I am seeking to get from classes, listens to my opinions on how I want to be taught, offer opinions on how they want to achieve my goals through their instruction, and form a plan with me or says we aren't a good fit. That's so much better than the pat answer, well this is just how we teach this.
To give another price comparison point from this shop they do local dives where they take a group of whoever is interested out to local lakes and quarries. It's 125 per dive, there is no boat involved in most sites, so basically tanks weights and a guide 250 for 2 dives with a group of people you may or may not know. For contrast I can book 1 on 1 private guided diving from an extremely experienced dive instructor in Roatan for 75 per tank. You can get this for even cheaper at other places there. What am I missing here? They are all decent divers, but I never looked at any and said wow that guy is a fantastic diver and I want to do everything I can to get to that point.
So I came back and went to my LDS and things are much, much more expensive. We are doing the cert because after 3 attempts now we just want to get through it so we can go dive, but I am having a hard time seeing why there is such a vast difference in price. The all in cheapest option for PADI is $1050 and SDI $950 and thats for checkouts in a cold quarry, If I want to do them in a FL spring it's and extra 50 or so. These prices include a $250 snorkel, mask, fins, booties, bag and defogger credit. So for PADI it is $850 for the confined water portion with the above basic kit, and tanks, eights and gear are include for pool sessions. The 4 checkout dives cost form 200-250 depending on the site and do not include any equipment you have to rent BCD wetsuit etc. I had all our equipment and I had the manuals so I was charged 600-125 for the materials credit, then 250 for the OW dives. So right at 725 for us. When I compare this to what I can get elsewhere, just wow. I could have gone with a different shop around Atlanta for cheaper but I stuck with this LDS because it was more convenient. In the end it turned out not only to be a lot more money but also not any more convenient because the local pool had issues and we had to drive just as far as if I had gone to the other dive shop. Now after we get through this OW cert this LDS is not going to be my LDS anymore if these will be the kinds of prices I can expect to see for advanced, nitrox, etc.
Now that I have set the picture, The quality of the instruction is important to me, and I get that that quality instructors get paid more. I am not discounting the instruction at this shop, they do care about instruction, and where very good with my daughter, however that's a pretty steep premium for what you get. They taught the same standards as I was taught, plus a few skills that are not required but are good to have. The instructor taught additional skills of safety buoy inflation at the surface, removal and replacement of gear at depth, and at the surface, and task loading while navigating (navigating while using oral inflation to adjust depth). I appreciate those extra skills as I think they are valuable skills, and he would not have taught them I would have, butt....
I am having a hard time justifying double the price because they are nice and patient people. In fact my philosophy on scuba certs and really anything I do is that minimum standards are not what should be strived for. They are minimum standards. For prices like that I want to be taught to minimum and beyond, not just a few extra skills, I want to be taught to be a great diver, as safe diver, a skilled diver. I personally had no challenges with any of the skills taught to me in my course, though I understand that many do and require the extra time. If an instructor teaches me a skill and I do not have a problem with it, then let's spend some time on how do we make it better than minimum standard, maybe how can we combine that with another skill, or focus on something they notice could be better. Minimum standard is like going through school happily getting D's in all classes. I don't want anything less than an A, for me or my family. I am someone that seeks out the extra information and tries to learn everything I can about a topic I find interesting.
I know PADI is pretty darned regimented in what and how they do things partly because we live in a society where everyone is so quick to sue instead of taking personal responsibility. Do I need to look at other agencies? Maybe I just need to get some recommendations on some good independent instructors that are known for producing excellent divers, and going above and beyond the minimum standard. At these rates, and learning the same thing at the $450 dive op verse the $900 shop, I can just take a vacation and go to a cool place for each cert and almost come out even with a vacation to boot. What am I missing here, does everyone else have this wide variability in training between land locked shops verse those nearer the prime diving locations? Is it just lack of competition? I don't want to come across as just shopping price because I am willing to pay for quality. There is a balance between price and quality and for higher prices I expect more. I also want to support my LDS if I can so I have local resources, but I'm not trying to fund a second vacation home for them.
Another gripe I've got is that all the skills are being taught kneeling on the bottom. I learned that way, but know that if someone had spent extra time to get me to do them neutrally buoyant I would have been a better diver sooner. If things are overwhelming maybe you start that way but by the end of the class things really should be in the neutral position for all skills. I asked both instructors current and former why they are teaching the skills kneeling, and they looked at me a bit goofy and said they need to because it is easier for the student. It doesn't push the student though, and it doesn't create real world situations for the student. if someone kicks off your mask and knocks your reg out I can guarantee you wont be kneeling in the sand, and you wont be trying to get there to recover either. I want all future instruction for me, my daughter and other family to be taught neutral. Someone please let me know either who the really, really good instructors are that will sit down and try to understand my goals, what I am seeking to get from classes, listens to my opinions on how I want to be taught, offer opinions on how they want to achieve my goals through their instruction, and form a plan with me or says we aren't a good fit. That's so much better than the pat answer, well this is just how we teach this.
To give another price comparison point from this shop they do local dives where they take a group of whoever is interested out to local lakes and quarries. It's 125 per dive, there is no boat involved in most sites, so basically tanks weights and a guide 250 for 2 dives with a group of people you may or may not know. For contrast I can book 1 on 1 private guided diving from an extremely experienced dive instructor in Roatan for 75 per tank. You can get this for even cheaper at other places there. What am I missing here? They are all decent divers, but I never looked at any and said wow that guy is a fantastic diver and I want to do everything I can to get to that point.
