Dive Cylinder Explodes - Sydney

[pspeirs]

Just to make it clear, the exact cause of the accident is not yet known. That dive store disposed of all pre-92 aluminium cylinders a long ago and the majority of their units are steel. Until a cause is known it is irresponsible to speculate as to what exactly went wrong.

 

[Shotmaster]

You are free to do what you want. I was there to pick up tanks and watched as they went through the facts. The owner changed their process right then, and stated that when any of those tanks come in, they were to be tagged, and only he would run the tests on them. He showed me the tank with the crack. I also saw him going through the logs. His first suspicion was that the tank had not been eddy tested. Everything in the shop was at a standstill while everyone went over who did what in the process. I have seen them find something during an inspection and call in the boss to verify what they found. They are very thorough and have procedures. They dont hot fill tanks either. So this was not some tall tale. Feel free to call me a liar again.

 

[kelemvor]

Interesting. I learned about not going into caves on the caver's list. That will give some indication of how long ago that was. I learned about ppo2 right here on ScubaBoard, and take 1.6 with a grain of salt. I learned about ratio deco here, rebreathers on rebreatherworld, and deco on the Deco Stop. Why? Because when someone says "You'll die if you exceed a 1.6 ppo2" someone else will come along and say "Well, maybe you won't" and you can get both sides or all sides or more of the story or the real story so that you can make an informed decision about what ppo2 you want to dive. For instance, my wife feels the wah-wahs coming on at 1.6 working. I have no problem with 2.0 working. My problem is with nitrogen. At 100 feet on air I'm the happiest diver on the planet. My darling bride is just as happy at 160 on air as she is at 20 feet. We wouldn't know that if we did what the dive shop said.

Certainly more advanced training can change things. I've only begun some technical training recently, and have some limited understandings of oxygen exposure. Still, I don't think it's reasonable to tell divers flatly not to trust their LDS (and by extension, their instructors and training agencies). I'm sure you wouldn't want your wife diving to 160 on 40% just to see how it works out would you? At some point we've got to trust those that know more than us. At least, we hope they do.

I understand, professionals such as yourself have loads of training and experience. Perhaps you have the knowledge and experience necessary to push limits without killing yourself. I don't think that means you should advocate all divers do it that way.

The LDS may have been wrong in this case, everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Perhaps it's an overreaction to an isolated incident. Regardless of the details, would you continue filling a tank that cracked while you were filling it? I admit I know nothing about filling tanks, and so I pay others to do it for me. As a laymen, I think if I saw a tank crack during a fill I would poop my pants.

 

[vincent54]

I have old aluminum tanks. How do you find out if the alloy is the 6051 alloy? Do they have a marking somewhere? I don't own a tank less than 10 years old, and they have passed hydro but sounds like the failure can occur anyway. Maybe it's time to replace.

Embarrassed to say I assumed a tank was safe to fill if it passed a hydro.

 

[nadwidny]

Not trusting your lds is a slippery slope indeed. Mine taught me not to go into caves without training, not to exceed 1.6ppo2, and a few other things.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. In your example the LDS was right 1 and a bit.

I'll bet a dollar the "few other things" are wrong.

 

[Wookie]

I have old aluminum tanks. How do you find out if the alloy is the 6051 alloy? Do they have a marking somewhere? I don't own a tank less than 10 years old, and they have passed hydro but sounds like the failure can occur anyway. Maybe it's time to replace.

Embarrassed to say I assumed a tank was safe to fill if it passed a hydro.

Any Walter Kidde Scuba Cylinder is 6351. Luxfer made before 1987 are 6351. All Catalina are fine. Many US Diver and Dacor cylinders were made by Luxfer.

Here is the straight skinny from PSI/PCI: PSI-PCI - A short Review of 6351 Alloy Aluminum Cylinders

 

[kelemvor]

Any Walter Kidde Scuba Cylinder is 6351. Luxfer made before 1987 are 6351. All Catalina are fine. Many US Diver and Dacor cylinders were made by Luxfer.

Here is the straight skinny from PSI/PCI: PSI-PCI - A short Review of 6351 Alloy Aluminum Cylinders

The document PSI references for identifying luxfer 6351 tanks has been removed from the url PSI has on the luxfer site. Someone has posted it here. http://www.adalefox.com/Luxfer Alloy Change Dates 2003.pdf

 

[Shotmaster]

Any Walter Kidde Scuba Cylinder is 6351. Luxfer made before 1987 are 6351. All Catalina are fine. Many US Diver and Dacor cylinders were made by Luxfer.

Here is the straight skinny from PSI/PCI: PSI-PCI - A short Review of 6351 Alloy Aluminum Cylinders

This article published by the University of Hawaii does a great unemotional job of laying out the issues and requirements for keeping these cylinders in service.

http://www.hawaii.edu/ehso/diving/Cracking and Ruptures of SCBA and SCUBA Aluminum Cylinders.pdf

 

[Wookie]

This article published by the University of Hawaii does a great unemotional job of laying out the issues and requirements for keeping these cylinders in service.

http://www.hawaii.edu/ehso/diving/Cracking and Ruptures of SCBA and SCUBA Aluminum Cylinders.pdf

Yup. That article was actually written by Bill High, of PSI (The same guy I referenced in the post you referenced). They are pretty much the experts in the world in the subject of sustained load cracking in aluminum scuba cylinders. I'd be happy to introduce you to Bill if you'd like, I've known him since the mid 90's. He no longer owns PSI, he sold it to Mark and Sherry Gresham. They used to come diving with me when I still owned a liveaboard. They do very "interesting" diving. He (Mark) has always worked for a 3 letter agency, and now he owns one.

 

[BoltSnap]

Not everyone is so lucky. Your anecdote shouldn't be used to justify throwing out safety procedures. In my case, a VIP would have caught the issues in the cylinder. It happens once in a while, and can be dealt with. I was unlucky with the cylinder had some issues. Lucky that it didn't ignite

Not justifying or excusing not following the rules, I am just pointing out what is happening here where despite what the experts say, it doesn't appear to be an immediate danger or a high probability that an ignition will takes place. I am sure that the odds will catch up with people here eventually but it hasn't so far despite that fact that it happens frequently by a lot of people here.

I am more amazed that an accident hasn't happened yet and scared that it will happen when I am around these guys (I try my best not to be around them).