Dive comp or bottom timer?

[rjack321]

Phlease don't go trotting out old GI3 balony. Most of those arguments are specious and redundant with one another.

Gauges quite simply allow you to dive the same schedule as your team - either a preplanned table schedule or a ratio deco schedule. There are a ton of other reasons as well, including the rather primitive algorithms used in most computers.

That said, the D3 is crap. Those gauges have like the world's highest failure rate. I've heard of people going through 3 or more of them.

The uwatec is simple but has no downloading or replacable batteries, vyper in gauge mode is an old standby, aladin tech has some reliability issues but has a nifty depth averaging and stopwatch functions. Those 3 are probably the most widely used. None is "perfect".

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I also noticed that not many GUE divers wear dive comps, choosing instead to use bottomtimers. Any reason for that?

One perspective goes something like this:

If you use a computer, it makes it fairly easy to not plan a dive in advance - but rather, to simply conduct the dive 'on the fly' and end it when the computer indicates your time is up.

Aside from it being difficult to conduct proper gas planning when you've no idea what depths you'll be at for what periods of time, such a method of conducting a dive does not mitigate the risks inherent to overhead mixed gas decompression diving. It might be acceptable for no-decompression recreational dives, but the risks increase once you begin to penetrate overhead environments, at greater depths, using helium mixes.

The entire purpose of dive planning is to reduce risk. There are inherent risks to mixed gas diving, elevated above those involved in recreational diving. We deal with the elevated risk level by detailed advance planning to mitigate the risks. Conducting dives 'on the fly' is not an appropriate way to reduce the elevated risks inherent to mixed gas overhead diving.

Technical divers use computers, but they more frequently use laptop programs to pre-plan dives. They use bottom timers to ensure that they are following the dive plan.

This is not to say that dive computers are never appropriate. There are certainly times when they are - for example, on the sort of exploratory dives conducted by Curt Bowen, a member of this board. His teams are penetrating cenotes and other overhead environments of unknown dimensions, and cannot pre-plan for all known potential outcomes. Still, exploration teams use other control factors (depth, time, etc.) to provide for risk reduction to acceptable levels, particularly considering the remote locations of many of their dive sites.

Computers are certainly a tool that can be used to make diving safer. More often, however, computers - when used as computers, not in 'gauge mode' - make it easier to skip pre-dive planning and conduct dives on the fly. Conducting dives 'on the fly' tends to increase the risks inherent to mixed gas overhead diving, not reduce them.

At least that is one rationale. Your mileage may most certainly vary.

 

[coldsmoke]

Phlease don't go trotting out old GI3 balony. Most of those arguments are specious and redundant with one another.

Gauges quite simply allow you to dive the same schedule as your team - either a preplanned table schedule or a ratio deco schedule. There are a ton of other reasons as well, including the rather primitive algorithms used in most computers.

That said, the D3 is crap. Those gauges have like the world's highest failure rate. I've heard of people going through 3 or more of them.

The uwatec is simple but has no downloading or replacable batteries, vyper in gauge mode is an old standby, aladin tech has some reliability issues but has a nifty depth averaging and stopwatch functions. Those 3 are probably the most widely used. None is "perfect".

I haven't ever heard anything good or bad about the d3. I don't own one but am thinking of getting one because it preforms basic bottom timer functions, it is computer downloadable, averages depth in intervals, and has a stopwatch. I respect your comments and I will certainly solict more opinions when purchasing a new bottom timer hits the top of the priority list. In the meantime, I'm just hoping someone will come out with a perfect one.

As far as the rest - I am not sure if you were directing the GI3 balony comment at me as I don't even know who GI3 is. And I appologize if I have quoted mis-information. I am newly minted and certainly don't know much, but I was trying answer - to the best of my abilities - the op's question.

Hunter

PS - I know this is a stupid quesiton but just who is GI3. I assume GI is George Irvine, but who is GI3 and what happened to GI2?

 

[Matt S.]

Baker's Dozen for not using a Dive Computer By Jarrod Jablonski
6) Dive computers significantly limit the likelihood that divers will
track their residual nitrogen groups.

Is this material old? I thought most/all computers these days tracked nitrogen between dives.

When I dive my computer, I don't surface knowing that an am a "G" diver, but the computer sure knows and uses that to modify the calculations for my next dive. If a computer didn't do that, it would be pretty useless.

I won't get into arguing about computers in tech or DIR diving, because I am a rec diver. I ain't got no fish in that fight.

 

[rjack321]

I haven't ever heard anything good or bad about the d3. I don't own one but am thinking of getting one because it preforms basic bottom timer functions, it is computer downloadable, averages depth in intervals, and has a stopwatch. I respect your comments and I will certainly solict more opinions when purchasing a new bottom timer hits the top of the priority list. In the meantime, I'm just hoping someone will come out with a perfect one.

As far as the rest - I am not sure if you were directing the GI3 balony comment at me as I don't even know who GI3 is. And I appologize if I have quoted mis-information. I am newly minted and certainly don't know much, but I was trying answer - to the best of my abilities - the op's question.

Hunter

PS - I know this is a stupid quesiton but just who is GI3. I assume GI is George Irvine, but who is GI3 and what happened to GI2?

Sorry coldsmoke, shouldn't have jumped on you. That list has been around for years. I think its printed in my DIRF book too. George rattled those off on a now defunct listserve about a decade or more ago. Anyway, regurgitating old stuff like that seems to perpetuate the perception that DIR divers are mindless drones who can't think for ourselves. There are good reasons to skip the computer once you're doing >receational level dives. #1 is because you don't need it. There are plenty of others too. None of us diving this way should need to rationalize our choices with George material.

Personally I have seen a very high failure rate on D3s with many different buddies. Some have gone through 4 on a combination of warranty and new ones. So I wouldn't get one.

GI2 was presumably George's dad? Although somepeople think he's Satan's child

 

[cool_hardware52]

GI2 was presumably George's dad? Although some people think he's Satan's child

Glad to see a great setup wasn't wasted.


Tobin

 

[dsteding]

Personally I have seen a very high failure rate on D3s with many different buddies. Some have gone through 4 on a combination of warranty and new ones. So I wouldn't get one.

Funny. On last weekend's charter, Bones and Kirk went back down on dive 2 to "test" Bone's D3. Apparently it was going into surface mode once he past 15 feet on the way up.

My way of "testing" the damn thing would have been to toss it overboard.

 

[RTodd]

For a purely gear answer, all obviously used in gauge mode only:

1) Uwatec Bottom Timer - about 10 years old - never had a problem.
2) Suunto Vytec - depth sensor died after about 3 years.
3) Uwatec Tec - third one is off for warranty review at this time. The "original" was purchased about 18 months ago. Great features, terrible quality.
4) Suunto D3 - my wife gave it to me about a year ago. Okay so far but rarely used and other recent Suunto products such as their GPS watches haven't faired too well for me.

I like the Uwatec Tec but would be hesitant to go to a dive site without the standard BT in my bag. Personally, I would hold out to see if they are going to upgrade the BT we can get in the states to add the four features that are nice on the Tec (avg. depth, time beyond 99 minutes, stop watch, and logging).

 

[lamont]

Personally I have seen a very high failure rate on D3s with many different buddies. Some have gone through 4 on a combination of warranty and new ones. So I wouldn't get one.

yeah, i'm starting to think that's true myself.

 

[The Chad]

For the OP, if you are working your way thru tech classes figure out if you like it and are going to stick with it. Start off with tables and a BT, plan your dives and get an understanding of how it all works. Then as you progress and decide you are commited to it start using software programes and who knows maybe even a computer that does gas changes. In the end you'll find them all helpful...software, comp, BT, tables and of course your brain