Dive Accident on Belize Aggressor

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Any number of situations and/or unknown history could have contributed to the MI.
Sure.
But yes, I have seen many people with a history of MI, especially at 3 months out, that I would consider to have a "healthy" heart.
You know, the adoption of such an attitude by health professionals toward NSTEMI patients could be dangerous. Several studies demonstrate that NSTEMI patients (with significant CAD) have a better short-term mortality rate than STEMI patients...but worse long-term mortality. Lots of possible reasons for this. Since we don't know all of the factors involved, it would seem to argue for more aggressive monitoring and treatment of NSTEMI patients post-MI.
 
You know, the adoption of such an attitude by health professionals toward NSTEMI patients could be dangerous. Several studies demonstrate that NSTEMI patients (with significant CAD) have a better short-term mortality rate than STEMI patients...but worse long-term mortality. Lots of possible reasons for this. Since we don't know all of the factors involved, it would seem to argue for more aggressive monitoring and treatment of NSTEMI patients post-MI.

I would agree that a high risk patient with NSTEMI would certainly warrant more aggressive treatment and follow-up than a lower risk patient (such as the OP, who was reportedly swimming 40-50 laps before her accident). I think we all agree that any time the heart suffers an insult, be it STEMI, NSTEMI, hypoxic injury or any degree of blockage requiring intervention that person is obviously at a higher risk for re-occurrence than a person with no cardiac disease. I think we can also be glad the OP is in rehab and doing her part to get back in the water.

Jordan.
 
Glad the OP is all right. A lot of blame to pass around for the cause of this incident if one wants to evaluate why things occured the way they did. A good place to start is each of the dive agencies OW training because they do not adequately address situational awareness and go / no go decision making.
 
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Is it common for anchored boats to use a trail line? I was on a deep dive from a live-aboard in Grand Bahama when the current was ripping. The crew ran a line from the anchor line back to the side of the boat where we entered and ran a very long trailing line behind the boat. (They had a dingy but never needed it.) We had to pull hand over hand to get to the anchor line and then pull down the anchor line. The current was not bad at 100 feet. Coming up was the reverse but you held the lines to keep from slipping away. Once at the back of the boat, you could hang onto the trailing line while others in front boarded or to rest before boarding. Swimming against strong current at the end of a dive seems like an issue of poor planning.
 
Thanks for posting this Jan, we are going to be on this same boat next month and I will probably be more aware of the currents because of your post.
 
@BubbleTrubble: When I made my statement I was thinking in the context of patients with elevated troponins but basically an otherwise benign presentation. Many different insults can lead to troponin leakage and therefore a clinical diagnosis of MI. Without having personally examined the OP and knowing whether she had only elevated troponins or some degree of stenosis on cardiac cath to come to her diagnosis I'd be remiss to make much more of an assumption. Any number of situations and/or unknown history could have contributed to the MI. But yes, I have seen many people with a history of MI, especially at 3 months out, that I would consider to have a "healthy" heart.

Jordan.

Without seeing the specific study results from the OP, I too won't make any assumptions on the exact pathology and prognosis. That said, there are a couple thoughts I have:

I have seen cases of demand ischemia in patients with otherwise clean coronary arteries. Especially as we age - and let's be honest, we all do - our ability to tolerate physiological insults diminishes. A couple of my extremely healthy (marathon runner-type) CRNAs have recently discovered cardiac problems as they age. A person in reasonable health with sudden blood loss, lung injury, or physically fighting for their lives can unbalance the oxygen supply/demand equation.

It's possible that the OP experienced laryngospasm or another mode of airway obstruction in the water. Forcefully trying to inhale against that would feel like drowning, and also raise the possibility of negative pressure pulmonary edema. That, on an XRay, would look like heart failure. Combine that with the demand ischemia and troponin leak from the heart's work, and it's easy to assume the event was all pulmonary edema from a primary cardiac process.

Takotsubo cardiomyopathy is classically taught in med schools as being a rare zebra. I've seen a few cases of it. It's a profound cardiac dysfunction that happens in the case of extreme physical or emotional stress. Previously healthy people can have a sudden dysfunction of their cardiac muscle, going from a normal ejection fraction in the 70s down to 20. That may be from circulating evil humors in the blood, or from actual spasm of a coronary artery. That would mimic severe coronary disease clinically.

Any one of the above-described processes would cause a presentation consistent with an MI. The heart catheterization would be "clean." In almost all cases, the echocardiographic picture improves to normal after the acute process has resolved. Those people have a healthy heart after recovering from the initial insult.

I agree with you on it being possible to return to being relatively healthy after an MI. In the case of coronary disease, it's very common to stent the vessels even before they block and cause an MI. I wouldn't say someone with a couple stents has an entirely healthy heart compared with a young athlete. However, a very fit individual with a couple stents, well-preserved cardiac function, and outstanding exercise tolerance can have a comparatively healthy heart. I'd bet on him to be much less likely to have an MI than the 300lb diabetic chain smoker who only exerts himself walking to get the mail. That guy may have a "healthy heart" by EKG, but be ripe for disaster.
 
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Glad the OP is all right. A lot of blame to pass around for the cause of this incident if one wants to evaluate why things occured the way they did. A good place to start is each of the dive agencies OW training because they do not adequately address situational awareness and go / no go decision making.

So the primary blame ("a good place to start") for this incident was inadequate OW instruction.

OK, then.

The OP completed nearly 200 dives over 14 years. Could you give an estimate of how many years (or decades) of experience and how many hundreds of dives it takes a diver to overcome that OW instruction?
 
So the primary blame ("a good place to start") for this incident was inadequate OW instruction.

OK, then.

The OP completed nearly 200 dives over 14 years. Could you give an estimate of how many years (or decades) of experience and how many hundreds of dives it takes a diver to overcome that OW instruction?

I understand your point, and I know where you're trying to go with this. I do not agree with theduckguru's assessment either. BUT- I still dive (in many ways) the same way I was taught in OW class. I hope like hell I never overcome what I learned there.
 
You're had plenty of feedback I don't need to add to, though I didn't feel like you were throwing the crew under the bus in your first post.

Another tip: in future , check liveaboards that have dive skiffs with ladders, rather than inflatables with over the side method. There's nothing wrong with the inflatables and you won't always find one at the destination you desire, but it is certainly easier to get out when you have a ladder to come up. The ladder isn't always the easiest either depending on how it's attached but is usually easier than dragging yourself into the boat.

Consider putting more weights around the tank. Not much as this is non-ditchable but helps trim better.
 
I think you misinterpeted my post. I believe there are many factors associated with this incident, not just the OW training. I do believe that the OW training is lacking go/no go decision making information. If I have overlooked this section in an OW manual, please point it out to me. Maybe this stuff has been updated since my training.

Edit: i am sure there are divers with 200 dives that have never dove off a boat or been in salt water. Likewise I am sure there are people who have 200 dives all in near zero current / low wave conditions. Yes, its experiance, but it may not be relevant to the making a proper assessment of the current conditions. If you want divers to make good decisions, you either have to instruct them how to or just let them figure it out on their own.. If you look at as preventable accident as a chain of events, the best place to start is at the beginning.


So the primary blame ("a good place to start") for this incident was inadequate OW instruction.

OK, then.

The OP completed nearly 200 dives over 14 years. Could you give an estimate of how many years (or decades) of experience and how many hundreds of dives it takes a diver to overcome that OW instruction?
 

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