Discussion topic - buddy separation protocol

[bogiewan]

My son and I have been buddies for many years, we very rarely lose track of one another for any significant period of time. We have an agreement to search for 3 minutes prior to surfacing. Finding each other, particularly at depth, seems preferable to surfacing under most conditions. We have agreed to ascend above the reef when applicable and use our lights to enhance visibility. We have agreed to bypass any safety stop if surfacing is required. The longest we have been separated is about a minute and a half. We have never had to surface to reunite but are well prepared to do that. Plan your dive...

Good diving, Craig

Good advice... the biggest problem is lack of a plan on what to do.

 

[bogiewan]

It really helps to understand a little deco theory and know a little history.

For years, people ascended at 60 fpm and did no safety stops. DCS was sporadic, but not rampant. Of course, bottom times were limited, both due to smaller tanks and due to diving tables, so nitrogen loads were probably not quite as high as people accumulate nowadays.

Tables are inherently pretty conservative, because they figure your nitrogen loading as though you are diving an absolutely square profile, spending all your time at your maximum depth. If your dive doesn't have that shape, you are already adding more conservativism to the tables, by spending time shallower than that max depth.

Then you realize that different organizations have used and do use different tables, and those tables offer different maximum times and require different stops (if any).

So nothing in that "close to NDLs" range is cut in stone. Therefore, the situation needs to be assessed for its own, unique characteristics, and you have to make the most intelligent decision you can. What you do know is that your buddy has a finite supply of gas, and people survive only a few minutes with nothing to breathe. If you surface and don't find your buddy there, and he doesn't arrive within a couple of minutes, then he needs to be looked for . . . And it takes time to get that done, either by you or by anybody else. Time spent in optional stops is gas your buddy has used before you begin to look for him. You are the only person who can make a decision as to whether you believe your risk of DCS (which is almost certainly well below 5%, even if you omit your stops and accelerate your ascent to 60 fpm) is concerning enough to you that it outweighs the urgency of locating your buddy. If you've dived with this person before and know he's a flake and takes off, you might well decide to do your stops, knowing the likelihood is high that he's fine and just being him. (The question of why you would be diving with such a person is another thing.) If you dive with this person regularly and he has NEVER gone missing before, then you probably spent more time at depth looking for him fairly hard, and you may well decide that as expedited an ascent as you feel you can safely do is called for.

The reality is that a buddy, lost at depth and in trouble and not rapidly relocated, is a really bad situation. There may be no really good answers. But I know, for me, that if I carefully did all my stops on the way up and my buddy was never found, or was not found alive, I would always wonder whether the three or four minutes of deco I did were the minutes that could have made a difference.

There are no cut and dried answers here. There aren't any for people who are truly under a mandatory decompression obligation, either (and this gets discussed by those people, too).

Well said.

 

[gcbryan]

I agree with TS&M's point as well. It seems to me that newer divers sometimes get too caught up in the "rules". If you only have a 3 minute SS or required deco stop you still don't have much chance of getting bent if you surface due to the grey line as discussed by TS&M.

I know in rec classes there is a lot of talk about not creating two problems but again this is geared for inexperienced divers as are most of the rules.

If your buddy actually has a problem time is of the essence. If you are both experienced divers more than likely a buddy separation does mean someone is having a problem.

If the divers are relatively inexperienced then the 1 minute search and ascend with/without SS whatever and stay on the surface so as not to create more problems probably is the best solution.

 

[String]

The way i see it is a safety stop is optional. A decompression stop isn't.

I personally hate PADIs phrasing of "mandatory safety stop". That to me means its not optional and is therefore a mandatory stop (ie a deco stop). Their wording there serves to confuse.

For a lost insta buddy type scenario i'd likely blow off a safety stop but not a deco stop.

For any more advanced dive or with someone i know we may have a different plan (stay down, do stops or whatever) briefed in advance.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I spent 20 years and well over 1500 dives in mostly low viz. What to do in the event of a separation was not an academic argumet, but rather a frequent occurrence.

In some cases (realistically most cases, if the buddy was experienced) I and my buddy would decide before hand that in the event of a separation, we would continue separately as solo divers. That has to be decided in advance so that each diver can properly configure their gear and do the gas planning, ensure adequate redudancy and ensure each maintains their own situational awareness and navigation.

In other cases, the plan would be to locate each other. However, this approach works best if you have a lead diver and a trailing diver. The dive plan also has to get thoroughly discussed in advance (max depths, times, turn points, landmarks, etc. During the dive the lead diver ensures any change in course during the dive is comunicated to the trailing diver and that they are indeed following after the course change. With that in place, the idea of having a base course that you are both on gives you a more targeted area to search in the event you do become separated.

If you have to ascend after an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin underwater, look for bubbles on the way up. The viz is often better off the bottom and it makes mores sense to follow the bubbles back down from mid ascent than to go all the way to the surface.

With regard to a safety stop, if I am close to an NDL I am going to take it. If I am diving in a current, odds are I started the dive swimming into it, so I will be drifting back down my course line and if the buddy is in trouble on the bottom, I am possibly going to spot the bubbles during the stop. More so even than on the surface if the condtions are choppy.

If the buddy is in trouble on the surface, the immediate threat is less and and extra 3 minutes is probably not going to be vital. If it is a coronary, CPR on the surface in the water is very ineffective anyway, so unless I could have potentially gotten the ashore or on board in a few minutes, it is a moot point whether I take a safety stop or not. Better to be safe and avoid a second victim.

If the buddy just got lost and surfaced (by far the most likely scenario) they will still be there after 3 minutes, or they will see my bubbles after they complete their safety stop and surface and swim down to me and we can then either continue the dive or abort. If I am diving deep (90-130 ft) and have to surface, the dive is for all intents and purposes over even if we were only on the bottom for a couple minutes.

Where it gets interesting is if you surface and the buddy is not there in a situation where the water is deep. They may have decided not to surface or may just be taking their own safety stop in which redescending places you at unwarranted risk. On the other hand, they may be entangled on the bottom and rapidly running out of air in which case they die if you don't redescend to find them.

In light of that I will swim a pattern to look for bubbles on the surface (taking the current into account - and also recognizing that in a strong current you may not be able to return to a spot over an entangled diver) but will not redecend unless I see bubbles.

In any event preveting a separation is much more productive than dealing with a separation, Similarly, locating each other underwater is the quickest way to render assistance, so having solid search protocols for lead and trail divers to improve the odds of rejoining underwater is important. It is also vital that both divers know the protocol and follow it to avoid putting the second diver at uneccesary risk if they have to surface.

And there are variations depending on the equipment in use. For example if a dive flag law requires the diver to tow a flag, the flag towing diver is readily marked and easy to locate on the surface. In that case the protocol in shallowish water (30-60 ft) maybe for the separated diver to surface, locate the flag and signal the submerged diver with a tug when they find the flag and then descend along the flag line and resume the dive. If the surfaced diver needs assistance they can give several rapid tugs, and vice versa, the surfaced diver can be advised of a problem below by either a lack of an answering tug or by a series of rapid tugs.

On a deeper dive with a dive flag, if the surfaced diver elects to stay surfaced they can provide an ok signal through the line and then communicate that they will stay on the line until the submerged diver surfaces after a safety stop. You just need to work out the protocol and signals in advance. In really low viz this may be reason enough to have the lead diver tow a flag or SMB.

In technical diving it is common in some locations for a yellow lift bag to mean one thing and an orange lift bag to mean another with one being "OK" and the other meaning "I have a problem and need assistance". A similar approach makes sense in a recreational setting in deeper water to facilitate relocating each other and helping a surfaced diver tell the difference between a diver on a safety stop and a diver in trouble on the bottom. At a minimum an SMB makes it easier for one diver to notice and locate another diver who is not yet on the surface.

In short the PADI "search for one minute and then surface" protocol works ok for dives to 60 ft or so that are well within the NDL's but it gets problematic as you go deeper or stay longer and frankly I don't think it was ever really intended to be the only separation plan once you start venturing below the 60 ft domain of the OW diver. At the AOW level, you need to have more skills and a better plan that utilizes additional resources as above all else, assisting one diver should not place another diver at undue risk as we already have way to many fatalities in this sport that needlessly become double fatalities.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Really very good points DA Aquamaster

All the points were good. I highlighted the ones that really hit hardest for me: A lost buddy in deeper water, you surface, and no buddy to be seen.

You search a bit on the surface and locate bubbles... now you need to quickly decide if the lost buddy is in trouble down there, or simply still looking for you. Do you wait, or do you descend again? Chances are, the lost diver is just "lost" and still looking for you and will surface shortly, thus "ok", but what if they are entangled?

Now I've just blown through a "safety stop" (an acceptable risk for me in this situation), and I am now on the surface faced with a decision about descending again with a greatly increased risk of DCS.... not a lot of good options.

As far as the original safety stop question that started this thread: The decision does become more complicated at the end of a deeper dive as you push closer to an NDL. Is the buddy just separated but actually "ok", or are they in trouble and need assistance? Will the time spent on the safety stop make any real difference (for the outcome of the lost buddy who is in trouble)?

After reading though all of the posts that followed my original post, I'm not sure that I can answer with as much certainty as I did early in this thread.

Great topic DaleC. Sure beats the heck out of "snorkel vs no-snorkel"

I spent 20 years and well over 1500 dives in mostly low viz. What to do in the event of a separation was not an academic argumet, but rather a frequent occurrence.

In some cases (realistically most cases, if the buddy was experienced) I and my buddy would decide before hand that in the event of a separation, we would continue separately as solo divers. That has to be decided in advance so that each diver can properly configure their gear and do the gas planning, ensure adequate redudancy and ensure each maintains their own situational awareness and navigation.

In other cases, the plan would be to locate each other. However, this approach works best if you have a lead diver and a trailing diver. The dive plan also has to get thoroughly discussed in advance (max depths, times, turn points, landmarks, etc. During the dive the lead diver ensures any change in course during the dive is comunicated to the trailing diver and that they are indeed following after the course change. With that in place, the idea of having a base course that you are both on gives you a more targeted area to search in the event you do become separated.

If you have to ascend after an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin underwater, look for bubbles on the way up. The viz is often better off the bottom and it makes mores sense to follow the bubbles back down from mid ascent than to go all the way to the surface.

With regard to a safety stop, if I am close to an NDL I am going to take it. If I am diving in a current, odds are I started the dive swimming into it, so I will be drifting back down my course line and if the buddy is in trouble on the bottom, I am possibly going to spot the bubbles during the stop. More so even than on the surface if the condtions are choppy.

If the buddy is in trouble on the surface, the immediate threat is less and and extra 3 minutes is probably not going to be vital. If it is a coronary, CPR on the surface in the water is very ineffective anyway, so unless I could have potentially gotten the ashore or on board in a few minutes, it is a moot point whether I take a safety stop or not. Better to be safe and avoid a second victim.

If the buddy just got lost and surfaced (by far the most likely scenario) they will still be there after 3 minutes, or they will see my bubbles after they complete their safety stop and surface and swim down to me and we can then either continue the dive or abort. If I am diving deep (90-130 ft) and have to surface, the dive is for all intents and purposes over even if we were only on the bottom for a couple minutes.

Where it gets interesting is if you surface and the buddy is not there in a situation where the water is deep. They may have decided not to surface or may just be taking their own safety stop in which redescending places you at unwarranted risk. On the other hand, they may be entangled on the bottom and rapidly running out of air in which case they die if you don't redescend to find them.

In light of that I will swim a pattern to look for bubbles on the surface (taking the current into account - and also recognizing that in a strong current you may not be able to return to a spot over an entangled diver) but will not redecend unless I see bubbles.
In any event preveting a separation is much more productive than dealing with a separation, Similarly, locating each other underwater is the quickest way to render assistance, so having solid search protocols for lead and trail divers to improve the odds of rejoining underwater is important. It is also vital that both divers know the protocol and follow it to avoid putting the second diver at uneccesary risk if they have to surface.

And there are variations depending on the equipment in use. For example if a dive flag law requires the diver to tow a flag, the flag towing diver is readily marked and easy to locate on the surface. In that case the protocol in shallowish water (30-60 ft) maybe for the separated diver to surface, locate the flag and signal the submerged diver with a tug when they find the flag and then descend along the flag line and resume the dive. If the surfaced diver needs assistance they can give several rapid tugs, and vice versa, the surfaced diver can be advised of a problem below by either a lack of an answering tug or by a series of rapid tugs.

On a deeper dive with a dive flag, if the surfaced diver elects to stay surfaced they can provide an ok signal through the line and then communicate that they will stay on the line until the submerged diver surfaces after a safety stop. You just need to work out the protocol and signals in advance. In really low viz this may be reason enough to have the lead diver tow a flag or SMB.

In technical diving it is common in some locations for a yellow lift bag to mean one thing and an orange lift bag to mean another with one being "OK" and the other meaning "I have a problem and need assistance". A similar approach makes sense in a recreational setting in deeper water to facilitate relocating each other and helping a surfaced diver tell the difference between a diver on a safety stop and a diver in trouble on the bottom. At a minimum an SMB makes it easier for one diver to notice and locate another diver who is not yet on the surface.

In short the PADI "search for one minute and then surface" protocol works ok for dives to 60 ft or so that are well within the NDL's but it gets problematic as you go deeper or stay longer and frankly I don't think it was ever really intended to be the only separation plan once you start venturing below the 60 ft domain of the OW diver. At the AOW level, you need to have more skills and a better plan that utilizes additional resources as above all else, assisting one diver should not place another diver at undue risk as we already have way to many fatalities in this sport that needlessly become double fatalities.

 

[Darnold9999]

I hate rules. They can't possibly cover all situations.

Think about the situation, don't panic and figure out what is the best thing to do in the current situation. I also dive in the PNW and diver separation is pretty common. A moments inattention and your buddy is gone. My preferred protocol is to have the gear to be solo. If my buddy has wandered off I expect that they will be back, they know which way they were swimming and hopefully know how to reverse course. If it was me that wandered off then it is up to me to reverse course and return.

After a minute or two it will depend on who I am diving with and what we agreed to, but if it was not carry on as if solo then I will actively search for as long as I think a search has the potential to be successful then call the dive surfacing as fast as I feel it is safe to do so - doing an in water search as I ascend hoping to locate a bubble trace. I may or may not do a SS, it will depend entirely on curcumstances and how close to NDL limits I am. The first dive of the day will get treated differently than the fourth.

However it is my belief that we are just calling the dive early for dives beyond 80 feet or so and I may as well keep myself safe when surfacing. The likelyhood that I am going to surface from a dive in poor vis to 80+ feet, locate bubbles, descend to a diver in trouble and perform a rescue is pretty much zero even if I skip the SS. We are both going to be running out of air, stressed and deep. The only realistic hope that a buddy in trouble at depth has is that I find them when searching at depth. Going to the surface and returning just is not going to work unless you are both carrying a lot of air.

This protocol does somewhat abandon the diver in trouble at the surface, but that is a trade off. A diver in trouble at depth has far fewer resources than a diver on the surface. I would prefer someone to take an extra minute or two at depth searching than to blindly follow the 1 minute and surface rule. That rule only makes sense to me if the dive is shallow and you plan to get back together and continue the dive.

 

[Ardy]

I dive in clear water 95% of the time with totally unknown buddies. My rules are simple. I will lead and point out stuff to you. You stay within 3m of me and slightly behind me. If I look around and you are not there, I will do an expanding circular search for you then if you are not there I will carry on my dive solo assuming that you have wandered off on your own.

If you end up on your own return to the boat safely and I will meet you there.

This may seem tough but the amount of times I have spent looking for buddies who just decided that following a photographer around is a waste of time and 'I will just hook up with these guys', beggars belief. I even had one buddy who jumped onto the end of a group using nitrox and ended up very badly into decompression. They held the boat up for 1.5hrs while they lowered tanks down to him. He was lucky that the leader of the nitrox guys noticed him and checked his tank and most probably saved him from a bend or a recompression trip.

 

[bogiewan]

Really very good points DA Aquamaster...

...Now I've just blown through a "safety stop" (an acceptable risk for me in this situation), and I am now on the surface faced with a decision about descending again with a greatly increased risk of DCS.... not a lot of good options.

Here's question that I think is relevant.
I am under the understanding that descending to do a "safety stop" after spending a few minutes on the surface is not harmful but beneficial. True ?
I would typically descend again to 15-20ft if contact was not made on the surface after a few minutes and head for the boat. :depressed:

 

[b1gcountry]

Here's question that I think is relevant.
I am under the understanding that descending to do a "safety stop" after spending a few minutes on the surface is not harmful but beneficial. True ?
I would typically descend again to 15-20ft if contact was not made on the surface after a few minutes and head for the boat. :depressed:

There really isn't enough information to say. It is pretty commonly accepted that repeated up and downs, especially at the end of a dive, are bad from a decompression standpoint. From a bubble perspective, going back down to around 15' is likely not going to cause any bubbles that have formed to shrink and go back into solution. Going back down to 15' will do nothing to reverse damage, or bubbles that have already formed, and it might actually make things worse.

However, if bubbles are just starting for form, a descent back down to safety stop depths soon after the ascent might slow down the bubbling enough that the body can effectively offgas the extra nitrogen in a safe manner.

In other words, the extra time at shallow depth is likely beneficial, but the extra ascent is detrimental. The amount of time spent at depth, and the speed of the ascent likely affects the degree of benefit/detriment.

Tom