Disappointed / Frustrated with my first OW class

[Neilwood]

You did say earlier that your main instructor was missing - was that due to planned absence or illness/other good reason? That makes a difference as if it was planned as 10-1 (+DM) is not great but 10-2 (+DM) is no where near as bad. It would also explain why the remaining instructor was running behind - if the plan was changed at the last minute, it can be difficult to adjust.

I would say that, so long as you are self aware & relatively critical of your own performance, you can easily pick up/sharpen your skills after the course either with a good buddy or a 1-1 session with an instructor/DM.

 

[oly5050user]

so you think that going over mask training is prolonged and unfair to other students -- did you stop and think that maybe there are other students that maybe having the same troubles. i would say that siging up for a private instructor is a bit much and maybe she doesnt have the money to do so.

i would hate for a student to finish class and go diving with out proper use of how to use a mask -- thats just asking for trouble and then whos liable. that could come back and bite the instructor in the ass becuse he didnt take 5 whole mins to show her how to fit the mask. use your head.

Read what I wrote where I said the rest of the class gets it right. Why have the others wait and perhaps start to get cold because someone is unprepared? Working maybe 5 minutes with a slow student is no big deal, but how about a student the instructor worked with one on one after objectives for the group are completed after mod 1,2,3 and it is module 4 and problem child still cannot comfortably do a skill? Student can finish class and not pass and not be allowed to go onto ow dives. It's called "student failure". Not everyone deserves to get a pass because they paid a fee. They have to earn it.
If student is held back and not sent to do the ow dives ( as they should be) how is this going to bite the instructor in the ass? I teach over 100 people a year and have no problem recycle someone into a class or advise them to do private. Does not happen too often, maybe 4 or 5 students a year take my advise and strive on with more effort on to success. Some make it, some may not.
Not everyone in the world should dive. Some can play golf.
To keep things in perspective here, Urbaneve, I became an instructor back in the "good old days" here in the northeast, when it was much more difficult according to some here , back in 1971.. NASDS, then SSI , now PADI for the past 40 years. So I think I have the experience and know early on in a class when a student diver is capable or not. I do as you wrote " use my head"..
Urban eve, not trying to be a smart ass here , and apologize before hand, but how much time should be spent holding up a class where everyone in the group learns at a proper prescribed rate and one student does not?
For the instructor to work one on one in the pool after all objectives for others in the class is done during a pool session is commendable, even expected. But to slow down or even stop the progress of a class for one problem student is not fair to others in the group.

 

[ScubaJill]

and just FYI urbaneve, I'm a dude - but like I said, the mask didn't hold me up at all. I had already read how to self clear it, which I did just fine. That was just one example out of many, not sure why everyone got so excited about that one in particular.

Because, in my experience, some folks on this board want to share their opinions no matter the topic. Others have difficulty with reading comprehension. Still others experience challenges with staying on topic. The mask issue was the low hanging fruit that was easy for them to grab.

Hope your classes get better! I do wonder about others who have a similar experience with OW training but who do not have your resourcefulness and high level of interest in learning, and what their dive experiences and dive "tenures" end up being.

 

[oly5050user]

oly5050user stated that just because the user is having problems with his mask her automatic solution is to hire a private instructor. in my class, this is one of the first things we covered. now i dont know about any other instuctors, maybe i had a a great one, but he took to the time to make sure everyones worked just fine.. I find it a bit extreme to go from a mis-fitting mask to a private instructor. same goes for those who do not swim well.

Where did I say that? I wrote class should continue on ..at end of any CW module while other students can practice skills on their own , problem student can be worked with. Never wrote "automatic solution is to hire a private instructor. Do not mis quote me. I wrote problem student can be recycled into next scheduled group class, we do this at no cost to student, OR take private class.

as you stated, we had to do laps to make sure we could swim well enough to be in the scuba class, if you could not make it a certain distance you could not participate in the class.

You also write " if you cannot make it a certain distance ( it's 200 yds by the way and 10 minute tread) you could not participate in class. But in previous paragraph you wrote " I find it extreme to go from a mis-fitting mask to private instructor.same goes for those who do not swim well".. The swim can be completed at any time before ow training dives. You think the scuba instructor is supposed to teach swimming during a scuba class? Instructor can offer suggestions to student that may improve their swim skills but not an inordinate amount of time spent doing so.A scuba instructor is not there to teach swim classes.
I had a student just last week that could not do the swim without stopping many times. She was very uncomfortable in water and can barely stay afloat , verge of panic every time in water over her head.
advised her to get swim lessons then come back. Same student had other multiple issues with many CW skills and would have slowed down class to a dead stop if I had to accommodate her every time.

 

[urbaneve71]

as you stated if a student has to stop or had trobule -- doesnt that take away from the other students you speak of. you are playing a double headed dragon and looking to win a fight and at the same time contradicting yourself.

you are trying to win an argument that is going way off topic and it useless

 

[oly5050user]

as you stated if a student has to stop or had trobule -- doesnt that take away from the other students you speak of. you are playing a double headed dragon and looking to win a fight and at the same time contradicting yourself.

you are trying to win an argument that is going way off topic and it useless

How does it not take away from other students? Instructor can work with problem child 1 to 1 at end of pool session while others can independently practice skills they learned. But to slow down or stop a class for 1 student when everyone else gets it is unfair to all.

 

[tursiops]

Interesting discussion.
There is an implicit contract between a student and a group class....if the student has needs that are distinct from what the class is designed to provide, then that student has violated the contract. How that is dealt with will depend on the situation....but the worst way to deal with it is to ignore it. The distinct needs may be because the student is ill-prepared (examples are being unable to swim, not having done the prep work, or not being able to understand the language being used), or because the student is overly prepared (examples are already knowing the material, arriving with gear already set up, being a swim star so unwilling to do the mickey-mouse 200 yard swim). The implicit contract is based on the needs (and also expectations) of the student not being too different from those for whom the class is intended. Private classes are designed to meet the needs of the needy students. The OP is a needy student, because of his over-preparation and high expectations. If the OP had gone into McDonalds and ordered a rare burger made with prime beef, and a whole-wheat bun, he'd have been told to go somewhere else for that meal. If he'd just ordered a burger, and expected prime beef, cooked less well, on a whole wheat bun, and them complained, he'd be laughed out of court. He did a lot of homework in advance of the class -- some might say too much -- but did not do any homework on the class itself. Big mistake.

 

[urbaneve71]

i realize its unfair to other students. but my point that im a trying to make since she was an instructor so many years ago. how long does it take to help someone with a mask. i mean really.

my other point -- having proper mask adjustment is essential to diving.

 

[urbaneve71]

Interesting discussion.
There is an implicit contract between a student and a group class....if the student has needs that are distinct from what the class is designed to provide, then that student has violated the contract. How that is dealt with will depend on the situation....but the worst way to deal with it is to ignore it. The distinct needs may be because the student is ill-prepared (examples are being unable to swim, not having done the prep work, or not being able to understand the language being used, or because the student is overly prepared (examples are already knowing the material, arriving with gear already set up, being a swim star so unwilling to do the mickey-mouse 200 yard swim). The implicit contract is based on the needs (and also expectations) of the student not being too different from those for whom the class is intended. Private classes are designed to meet the needs of the needy students. The OP is a needy student, because of his over-preparation and high expectations. If the OP had gone into McDonalds and ordered a rare burger made with prime beef, and a whole-wheat bun, he'd have been told to go somewhere else for that meal. If he'd just ordered a burger, and expected prime beef, cooked less well, on a whole wheat bun, and them complained, he'd be laughed out of court. He did a lot of homework in advance of the class -- some might say too much -- but did not do any homework on the class itself. Big mistake.

so is what you are saying is that a NEW diver should know the in and outs of how to use a mask, snorkel and fins let alone the equipment -- im just asking

 

[Doby45]

so is what you are saying is that a NEW diver should know the in and outs of how to use a mask, snorkel and fins let alone the equipment -- im just asking

Mask, you put it on your face. Snorkel, you breath air through it while on the surface. Fins, you put them on your feet. Don't over complicate this for the sake of argument. The OP did state that they specifically told them not to buy a mask so they could try different masks. I would say he tried one that did not fit so well, try another. That was the point, I think.