DIR setup for DM certification??

[bcsean]

Mike, Sean...

I know "why" the DM's are asked to wear shop equipment. Where I think it's extremely silly however is that if I am a DM candidate taking a class...during which time I am basically an unpaid employee of the shop and a student myself...why would I be required to be a swimming advertisement of the shops latest and greatest gear? It's not in my top 10 reasons to take the class to get additional sales and marketing experience. If I want to take a DM class simply to broaden my horizons or to work on a diveboat etc., then why is it a requirement of a class I'm taking as a student that I spend a huge chunk of my time and effort to work as someone else's sales department?

I would give a very rough analogy to...I dunno...a class in basic house framing or something in which I had to use the tools which the school sold instead of the ones I already had. A hammer is a hammer, a tool belt is a tool belt. I'm not there to learn how to promote the hammers the school sells, I'm there to learn how to supervise others in the use of hammers.

bwerb, what are you talking about? I said I "can" use my hogarthian setup. The shop just wants me to be familiar with what they sell so if people ask about it I can explain the benefits of the gear they sell. They have no problem with me using this rig at all, and I fully intend on it, even if they don't sell it, cause it's what I believe in. As for learning about the gear they sell? I spend enough time looking into gear already, that really wont be a learning curve at all, so I don't expect much time to be put into it.

 

[Capnsnott]

I am getting ready to start the SSI Dive Con and PADI DM class (my LDS is both). The only thing I can't do is have the 7' hose setup. I have my old short hose regs I will use while "Demo-ing" skills for the students in the CW part. BUT this shop is where I got my Halcyon BP & wing from, so they really wouldn't say anything about it. I did my PADI Rescue class in it w/ 7' hose (different shop) and the instructor didn't say anything either. I kind of made her look bad when I handed her my reg in an ooa drill before she could even get hers out of her mouth. She had to fumble to get her "octo" ready for me when it was her turn.
I will use my good regs for non confined wtr classes though.
I hope this helped, it really boils down to the instructor you are working with.
Now what will be interesting is if I take the DIRf class in September....... Still thinking about it. (see my new post)
Greg

 

[Dan Gibson]

This drill is really about learning how to handle problems. It's not about trying to make it easy on anyone. That's one of the major problems I keep seeing in many of the shops. Eveyone wants to make it easy. Why not make it challenging. The DM candidates will be much better for it in the end.

I'm just about to do my DM course, and I plan to be using a jacket style bc for the course. The big worry I had was swapping gear underwater. Didn't figure this would be idea having a totally different setup then everyone else there, and it's not exactly the easiest thing to get on and off underwater.

I'm just in the midst of getting my bp/wing setup and havent dove it yet, but I really don't see it helping in the course itself. I've already cleared it with the shop that I can dive this setup when working with them, even though they don't sell it, as long as I know the "selling features, benefits" to the equipment they sell.

 

[Capnsnott]

bcsean,
I forgot to tell you,
start with your buddy's gear on first, then when you switch it will be easier on you to do the first time. Once you have done it one time (so I am told) you won't be so stressed over it. I feel very strongly that the skill needs to be learned with the gear you will dive on. Like Dan said, it's the problem solving skills that you need. Plan for the worst, learn to figure it out under water and do it. That was the best part of Rescue class for me. How to grab a sinking 260# guy that is freaking out was a blast.
Just my .0002
Greg

 

[bcsean]

thanks for the advice guys. I had the same advice already about starting with my buddies gear, and as long as he's ok with it, I think I'll do exactly that.

I think I may make one small change in config though. Take off p-weight and get a few pounds on my weight belt. Don't need to go hitting the surface when I remove bp/wing.

 

[bwerb]

bwerb, what are you talking about? I said I "can" use my hogarthian setup. The shop just wants me to be familiar with what they sell so if people ask about it I can explain the benefits of the gear they sell. They have no problem with me using this rig at all, and I fully intend on it, even if they don't sell it, cause it's what I believe in. As for learning about the gear they sell? I spend enough time looking into gear already, that really wont be a learning curve at all, so I don't expect much time to be put into it.

...dude...what I'm saying is that I fully understand the whole diveshop model and reasoning. I know you can use your set-up. My point is much more global than your specific shop.

I'm simply saying that there should not be a brand/configuration requirements for a student taking a course in basic dive leadership. You are taking the course to learn dive leadership, not how to sell gear. The only entity that cares gear brand are the people running the shop because they want DM's to be sales people.

See what I'm saying. The idea that a student wanting to learn how to lead should have to become a defacto "poster child" for the shops brands/configs is in my mind silly. If I want to become an employee (paid) of the shop...then they can tell me what my uniform should be. Until that time...I'm a student using my gear.

Yes, I can and you can talk about specific gear choices and styles etc. I have no problem with that. I do have an issue with dive shops telling their DM students that they are to push the brands specific to the dive shop. I'm a DM student...I can tell you about features and things I like (balanced vs unbalanced. back inflate vs. stab jacket, DIN vs Yoke, but I don't think part of my class should be about selling Scubapro or Tusa or anything else).

My little summary is this...I think the model of dive education and it's relation to dive shops sucks. Make the classes pay for themselves by charging what it really costs instead of subsidizing it with gear sales and creating a whole raft of DM's candidates who basically are seen as unpaid employees of the shops they are training with.

 

[jagfish]

You are taking the course to learn dive leadership, not how to sell gear...

...The idea that a student wanting to learn how to lead should have to become a defacto "poster child" for the shops brands/configs is in my mind silly. If I want to become an employee (paid) of the shop...then they can tell me what my uniform should be. Until that time...I'm a student using my gear.

Great points...

JAG

 

[ninjamuzo]

As a PADI Instructor I can confirm that it doesn;t matter what yuor equipment configuration is as long as you have all the necessary pieces, i.e. snorkle, bc, two second stages etc.

Since one of the diving requirements is that your buddy checks you equipment configuration in your pre-dive check this also makes sense.

Not wanting to start a DIR argument the equipment configuration you are most comfortable with is the best one to use when you are diving. If you have dived one way for years changing to a "DIR" configuraton can kill you when you reach for the wrong hose in a gas change.

You cannot wear a snorkel in a cave in Australia, unless you want to dive alone so if your methodology says "always wear a snorkel" this would be doing it wrong in that situation. Your buddy has the responsibility of needing to know where your clips etc. are.

In the case of a PADI DM course however the standard says you have to wear one.

 

[bwerb]

In the case of a PADI DM course however the standard says you have to wear one (a snorkel that is).

It says you have to HAVE one...that's what pockets are for

 

[ElectricZombie]

Are we alowed to use an backplate/ wing for the Divemasters certification???

If the shop or Instructor will not allow you to dive a BP/wing, you really should not be taking a class with them. Take your business elsewhere if they start acting stupid.