DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?

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diverberr once bubbled...
While getting kitted up, the DIR crew told this diver that they wouldn't be diving with him because he wasn't DIR, wasn't a safe diver, and would be putting the rest of them at risk. So he did the dive solo, seething about the snub the whole time.

See...this is where I think I am different from most non-DIR divers on this board. If I had the experience that your friend had and ran into guys like that...I would be more than happy to dive alone...in fact, I am pretty sure that I would not want to dive with those jokers.

It's the "he felt snubbed" part that I just don't get...so he ran into 5 morons that didn't know what they were talking about...blow them off and move on.
 
King Kong Matt once bubbled...


See...this is where I think I am different from most non-DIR divers on this board. If I had the experience that your friend had and ran into guys like that...I would be more than happy to dive alone...in fact, I am pretty sure that I would not want to dive with those jokers.

It's the "he felt snubbed" part that I just don't get...so he ran into 5 morons that didn't know what they were talking about...blow them off and move on.


I definitely agree with you Matt. That was just my explanation of why I'm against that mindset. As for equipment configuration, I'm always open to new things, including aspects of DIR setup.

And I should note that I'm not against DIR divers en masse, it's just that mindset. The "You're not doing it our way, so your wrong." type of diver. The type who's not open to new things, and new advances in our sport.
 
diverberr once bubbled...
I'm not saying he is, but he may have been the most experienced, best equipped, and safest diver on the boat that day.

Sounds to me like your friend had the misfortune to encounter a "tech 1 pack". This would be a group of divers with very little experience in real world diving who have taken probably 3 courses in their lives, o/w, dirf, and GUE tech 1.

Sometimes folks get things in their heads that aren't exactly accurate. Rule #1 is the perfect example. The rule states "Don't dive with strokes". It's a good rule. The problem, of course is in the definition of "stroke".

Stroke DOES NOT mean a non-DIR diver. Does everyone get that? It means an unsafe diver. Yes, unsafe divers are generally non-DIR but the reverse is not always true. There are thousands of good safe divers who don't dive DIR.

On my last dive there were 3 buddy teams, fitting into each of the 3 categories. First, there was my buddy and I, both basically DIR divers (although neither of us is GUE trained), then there was a team diving non-DIR but with quality equipment (no, not all Halcyon)and clear experience and knowledge, finally there was a stroke team, 2 folks, one of who used to be somebody but had been dry for years and his wife who had very little experience.

It was easy to tell which team was stroking as they had trouble putting their gear together, had too much gear (who needs 4 primary reels???)and were just generally a major mess.

The dive was the Hydro Atlantic wreck, 180'. The seas were running 2-3 and current was cranking.

Consulting with the captain my buddy and I asked for a live drop and pickup. The second team requested same. The third team, however, wanted an ascent/descent line.

The end result was that my team would live drop with the line and hook it into the wreck. The second team would live drop about a minute after we did, and the third team would wait until we had secured the line. The second team would release the line at the end of the dive as the third team planned only a 15 minute BT while the other 2 would do 25.

Everything went fine for the first 2 teams. The third, we found out later, never even made it underwater. They were dropped perfectly but missed the line and couldn't beat the current. Best thing that could have happened in my opinion.

Bottom line is that divers can be safe whether DIR or not.

I would have dived with your friend.

Tom
 
WreckWriter once bubbled...


Sounds to me like your friend had the misfortune to encounter a "tech 1 pack". This would be a group of divers with very little experience in real world diving who have taken probably 3 courses in their lives, o/w, dirf, and GUE tech 1.

Sometimes folks get things in their heads that aren't exactly accurate. Rule #1 is the perfect example. The rule states "Don't dive with strokes". It's a good rule. The problem, of course is in the definition of "stroke".
Tom

This is the nail of the head.

the problem is not with DIR divers, I think most if not all tech divers have incorperated aspecs of gear configuration etc that would qualify as DIR.

The real attitude divers are just what Wreckwritter has discribed above GUE trained divers I have run into a few myself 3 to be exact. one was tolorant of us and two where total asses and would not dive with us. displaying the well taught attitude of the GUE trained diver

those of you that have never taken a GUE course but dive what you concider DIR have generaly done so because you have made a choice to use the packaged system developed by GUE, which is a great system of diving. however you will need to take the course to really develop your attitude.

I think it is important here to reconize a difference between DIR and GUE. I have nothing against DIR or people who dive it, and none of my comments have been directed at them. GUE however seems to have developed divers with a certain type of attitude as described by Wreckwriter above that i dislike. there are specific examples here on this thread alone.

this is not to say that all GUE divers have this undesirable attitude, it is just an exception if they are not dirogatory, name calling, closed minded, worshipers of the great JJ and his side kick GI.

however any true open minded advanced tech diver would be foolish not to watch and learn from JJ & GI they are doing some great things, just don't let them put you into a trance
 
I see GUE divers taking a bit of a beating here. My personnal experience is that most of the Divers who have been through a GUE course that I meet are open minded and the alot of the ones who dive the rig without the classes are strict.

One friend with recently did Cave 1 came back with the terms

JJ moderates and Trey militants.

All the local DIR/GUE divers locally are more than happy to dive with anyone. Most all of them are instructors and work with students in jackets with rec hose setups all the time without calling them names or telling them they are going to die.

There is a good local movement to DIR because of thier additude that they will discuss anything about their gear that you want too but I have never seen them bring it up or push it on others.

In the end it comes down to what kind of person you are, not what gear you use or who trained you.

Chad
 
Unfortuntly, you will get some people like this. They were probally wanting to be the cool kids in school and now they can be. I took at DIR-F class and a lot of people were all low key. Dive with people you like and be safe.


Eric
 
AquaTec once bubbled...
his is not to say that all GUE divers have this undesirable attitude, it is just an exception if they are not dirogatory, name calling, closed minded, worshipers of the great JJ and his side kick GI.

On this we disagree. I think the bad ones are the minority, very much so.

I also think its wrong to associate George with GUE as he has no association beyond his primary buddy running GUE. George runs WKPP, with its own brand of DIR (the brand I happen to subscribe to). He has his reasons for being a jerk sometimes on mailing lists. Those who don't know him in person should not call him into question.

Tom
 
WreckWriter once bubbled...


On this we disagree. I think the bad ones are the minority, very much so.

I also think its wrong to associate George with GUE as he has no association beyond his primary buddy running GUE. George runs WKPP, with its own brand of DIR (the brand I happen to subscribe to). He has his reasons for being a jerk sometimes on mailing lists. Those who don't know him in person should not call him into question.

Tom

MY APPOLOGIES THEN!!
you are right about George

and as for the majority or minority. I was reffering to this board.
I have only ever met three GUE trained divers as I have said before.
 
AquaTec once bubbled...
some people like LOST yooper seem to have an axe to grind because people dive on air, thats ok but its funny that his axe grinds with every single agency except GUE, be carefull in shunning something blanketdly as you may miss something that is important. hince the reason i still listen to all the DIR stuff that is said here.

Boy, I had to go back and read everything I said cuz it's been so long. Yup, I stand by everything I said in this thread. BTW, I don't have an ax to grind with those who dive deep air. I do have an ax to grind with agencies, instructors, and those "leaders" in the industry who promote, advocate, and teach deep air classes (which I have taken myself). It's utter foolishness, and they know it. I couldn't care less if individuals take calculated risks. It's when they don't know the risks because they weren't taught that bugs me. It's the greed that really urks me.

Regarding DIR bashing on THIS board, the vast majority of arguments here are started by non DIR people. It is rare that a DIR guy gets on here and calls someone a stroke or something for something they are doing or not doing. In fact, I can't remember it happening here. Most DIR followers here, if not all, simply explain why they feel the way they do and, for some reason, it bugs some people. Personally, I don't care. People are free to express their viewpoints anyway and anytime they want to, DIR or not.

What's the problem?

Mike
 
No problem. you are entitled to your oppinion.

just be carefull for knocking people down for their oppinion
 

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