dir-f question?

[StSomewhere]

Yes, I happen to know a LOT about what I'm talking about. Maybe not about GUE/DIR, but definitely about training standards.

You say "the prerequisites are perfectly available to any student thinking about taking the class", mer says that's not the case. So although they are available, someone working from the published standard only learns by chance here that the GUE website is out of date, and the actual standards are in fact being modified without any advance notice?

Its one thing to publish standards and changes, but changing standards in mid-stream on someone is almost by definition arbitrary or capricious.

 

[jonnythan]

You say "the prerequisites are perfectly available to any student thinking about taking the class", mer says that's not the case. So although they are available, someone working from the published standard only learns by chance here that the GUE website is out of date, and the actual standards are in fact being modified without any advance notice?

Its one thing to publish standards and changes, but changing standards in mid-stream on someone is almost by definition arbitrary or capricious.

Quit trying so hard to find fault.

If you're thinking about taking the class, you email the instructor and say "What are the swim requirements?" You will get a straightforward, direct, clear answer.

If you're not thinking about taking the class, don't worry about it.

Standards change. Big deal. It's not the end of the world, and to suggest that they're changed arbitrarily or on a whim is downright wrong and you'd do best not to make such baseless accusations. Show us where the requirements have been arbitrarily changed, how many times they've been changed, and what they've been changed to, then you might have something? Because as of right now you're exhibiting a knee-jerk reaction to some half-baked partial info you read on an internet discussion forum and you would be well advised to look into the matter a little further before you shot your mouth off.

 

[StSomewhere]

If you're not thinking about taking the class, don't worry about it.

I'm sorry, have you actually been following this thread? :06:

 

[jonnythan]

I'm sorry, have you actually been following this thread? :06:

I've been following it very closely, and I've also been following the actions of GUE as a training organization as best I can for the better part of two years.

The minimum requirements have been set for quite some time, but instructors have always been free to require slightly more. This is why it is of great importance to ask your instructor instead of trusting what you read on the internet so that there are no surprises when you get to your class.

So as I said the requirements have been set for some time. However GUE is in the process of publicly and privately re-evaluating the fitness requirements for all of its classes so obviously these things may change in the near future.

mer simply repeated a rumor she obviously heard. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen. I have no idea how reliable her source is. But you come along accusing GUE of changing the requirements arbitrarily on a total whim, which is (to put it politely) horse phooey.

If you want the real information, look at GUE's web site or ASK YOUR INSTRUCTOR.

 

[jonnythan]

Specifically:

I think its bullsh!t to be continually tinkering with the prerequisites, without any advanced notice.

It shows the powers that be either don't understand the concept of a prerequisite (diving or otherwise) or that the existing prerequisites were arbitrary or capricious or otherwise not well thought out.

How about you tell us exactly how many times GUE has changed the prerequisites without any advance notice.

Dates are helpful. If you want to go all out and give us a nice chart that displays the arbitrary changes in the requirements over the past several years that would be especially helpful.

 

[diveh3]

Birdies tell me that the swim test standard will be increased to 400 yards in 14 mins for fundamentals. The standards available online have not yet caught up. Still should not be a problem for anyone.

I know our instructor requires the 400yd swim, No big Deal.
I followed the thread on Quest posed by JJ, but I didn't get the same message from the birdie. I took it that increases in distance would be in tech & advanced training.
I would still argue that swimming proves nothing of a persons fitness. I have seen some really out of shape folks swim circles around me.
I just don't like to swim, Id rather scooter!

 

[StSomewhere]

Standards change. Big deal. It's not the end of the world, and to suggest that they're changed arbitrarily or on a whim is downright wrong and you'd do best not to make such baseless accusations.

Capricious would be if they changed their published standards one day regardless of what anyone had previously been working from. Arbitrary would be if they changed the standards but didn't actually publish them and you could only discover this when you went to register for their class.

I'm sorry, I've apparently touched some huge nerve. FWIW, I would hold any other training organization to the same "standard". Apparently, if I had access to Quest I would've known all about this...

 

[jonnythan]

Capricious would be if they changed their published standards one day regardless of what anyone had previously been working from. Arbitrary would be if they changed the standards but didn't actually publish them and you could only discover this when you went to register for their class.

I'm sorry, I've apparently touched some huge nerve. FWIW, I would hold any other training organization to the same "standard". Apparently, if I had access to Quest I would've known all about this...

You could also find out about potential standards changes if you.. gasp... ASKED YOUR INSTRUCTOR!

The standard is still 300 yards in 14 minutes. That's what I did with Dan Mackay just two weeks ago.

You don't need to be registered for a class to find anything out. A simple email is all it takes, I promise. They DO reply to emails before you've signed up for a class.

 

[StSomewhere]

Why would I sign up for a class and get an instructor until I had met the requirements? Why should they be bothered with me until then?

BTW, if you are looking for exact dates then I can't help you because I haven't been along for the ride until recently, but I have emails and faq's where x is acceptable and y isn't, only to find that that's the old DIR and "things have changed". I'm miffed because its hard to hit a moving target...

PM pending, we don't need to continue this here...

 

[jonnythan]

You're right, we don't need to continue it here. All you have are vague references to some unnamed person saying "things have changed" in reference to God knows what.

The standards have not changed, they have not changed for some time, and the standards are right there on the website for the whole world to see. The standards are also available through a simple email to your instructor.

Come back and make these accusations when you have some hope of defending them to a critical inquiry. Clearly you don't have any actual information.