DIR and insta-buddies

[Crush]

It was brought to my attention that it may seem as thought I was attempting to walk into a DIR ant nest and poke it with this post. This was not my intent and I hope that the post did not offend. It was also brought to my attention that it might seem as though I was stating that my abandonment of a diver was done while diving in the DIR fashion. Re-reading my post I can see how this is a valid interpretation but that was not my intent. Unless I started with GUE EDGE it was not a DIR dive.

I am however very disappointed by some of the responses and will likely leave the DIR forum.

 

[jonnythan]

It was brought to my attention that it may seem as thought I was attempting to walk into a DIR ant nest and poke it with this post. This was not my intent and I hope that the post did not offend. It was also brought to my attention that it might seem as though I was stating that my abandonment of a diver was done while diving in the DIR fashion. Re-reading my post I can see how this is a valid interpretation but that was not my intent. Unless I started with GUE EDGE it was not a DIR dive.

I am however very disappointed by some of the responses and will likely leave the DIR forum.

Probably makes sense, since this entire thread is about non-DIR diving.

 

[leabre]

I am however very disappointed by some of the responses and will likely leave the DIR forum.

Try not to take it personally. You asked about a DIR aspect in a DIR forum and now you understand that most DIR divers take their philosophy seriously. But did portray a very unsafe attitude about the philosophy.

I am curious about how DIR practitioners should and do deal with DIR-trained insta-buddies, or even non-DIR-trained insta-buddies. When I dive with insta-buddies I find that my buddy quickly becomes too far away to be of help, if not out of sight. I do my best to keep up with my insta-buddy when following...

Quite honestly, if for no other reason to discuss things before the dive, is to communicate the importance of being within rescue distance under water if there's an emergency. One of my regular dive buddies is a speed-demon, too, and it irritates me. I eventually discovered that he does it to keep warm. He's in a 7mm wetsuit while I'm in a drysuit. If he's as still and subtle as I am, he gets chilled and will abort the dive. It is no excuse, but knowing that I tend to be a little less still and it works out more or less.

Do you carry wet notes under water? If so write down "SLOW DOWN" and if he doesn't, then abort the dive. At the surface, have a chat. Tell him that's why you won't do a second dive with him. It's dangerous, etc. But always politely. Most of the time people aren't aware they're doing it. Me, sometimes I do it. I'm slow as molasses down there and sometimes out do my dive buddies -- I always catch it with my situational awareness but sometimes it is a real bitch to be slow enough.

if my insta-buddy is leading, swimming so fast that I am having difficulty keeping up, is inattentive and loses me several times in one dive, I am willing to abandon them during the dive by not searching for them the next time that they lose me.

How bad am I for behaving like this? Or do others do similar things, despite their DIR training? Or is it simpler to avoid the situation by not diving with insta-buddies?

Quite honestly, if you are the kind of diver that would so easily abandon a dive buddy then you should likely not dive with that person. Or, at least communicate that you'll abandon them if they lose you and that will leave them alone to deal with any emergency and possibly die alone.

Anyone that would communicate that to me then I wouldn't dive with or let dive with any of my friends, family, or loved ones. Because at first its just over a speed-demon. But later it expands to any other criteria. In general that is an unsafe attitude. DIR is about minimizing failure and and mitigating it when it happens. The most critical importance of this is always to have gas available. Sometimes that happens via gas-sharing. If a team member abandons, then that severely increases the chance of death if an emergency happens that requires additional gas to make it home. I don't know a single DIR diver that will deem that acceptable by any stretch.

I am curious, how often does this happen? I dive with many new divers or instant buddies all the time and rarely have such problems.

 

[Griffo]

It was brought to my attention that it may seem as thought I was attempting to walk into a DIR ant nest and poke it with this post. This was not my intent and I hope that the post did not offend. It was also brought to my attention that it might seem as though I was stating that my abandonment of a diver was done while diving in the DIR fashion. Re-reading my post I can see how this is a valid interpretation but that was not my intent. Unless I started with GUE EDGE it was not a DIR dive.

I am however very disappointed by some of the responses and will likely leave the DIR forum.

I don't think anyone was offended, but your original post stated a whole lot of procedures on your part that simply aren't DIR. It would be a bit like going into the sidemount forum and asking for advice on how to lift a set of manifolded doubles onto your back.

I'm actually also quite interested in how DIR divers dive with non-DIR instabuddies, and there was some good information provided.

 

[kathydee]

I find it hard to try to force divers to communicate when they are too cool to do so. I find it hard to go through hand signals and dive plans if they obviously don't care. And if I am an insta-buddy, I have little choice but to not dive

I've passed on some really spectacular dives in SE Asia and caves down in Mexico because there was no DIR buddy. I do not regret the decisons at all. Having a like-minded partner on the same page for planning, diving, equipment and procedures makes the dive experience so much more enjoyable.

On rare occasions, one solution has been to recruit an interested insta buddy, and quickly train them up over a few very easy days, to where the dives are approaching DIR.

II am however very disappointed by some of the responses and will likely leave the DIR forum.

Oh, I hope you don't leave, there is much to be learned here . If you stick around and take some classes, our philosophy will start to make more sense.

Some of these responses may sound abrasive but, from our perspective, are only posted to help you understand DIR diving a little bit better.

Even with GUE insta buddies, there are often check out dives. Once team and trust are established, we progress into the more challenging.

 

[BluewaterSail]

I had a dive buddy challenge last weekend. I had a lovely dive with a non-DIR insta-buddy young man on Friday. On Saturday, he turns up again, but this time with his father, who I was told was a famous NAUI and PADI instructor in his day (now retired). They planned to do a shallow little shore dive and test out some new camera gear. I love diving with photographers, because then I can stay in one place for a while, and see the little things. Also, hovering practice is always welcome. I asked if I could join them and they agreed. So we had a little pre-dive talk before the dive, everything was nice, until all of a sudden, son sees an octopus and stops to photograph it, and Dad continues on his way. Where should I go? Father or son? I assumed that Dad would realize that he lost his team, and backtrack, but never happened. We saw him again at the beach. I chose to stay with son because I figured that Dad was much more experienced. And I guess that the son's octopus was much more interesting to look at than Dad's fin tips too.

To go back to the beach was the plan if lost; we were never far from it, and we all had compasses. But the father just didn't seem to place much importance in staying with us. Afterwards, he said that he stopped someplace and waited a while for us to catch up, then went to the beach. We arrived about the same time. The son was visibly annoyed and embarrassed.

I try to follow DIR principles even when diving with non-DIR folks. But sometimes you just can't win. I know that someone will find that I did something very non-DIR. Thats OK. All I can say is that I would dive with son again any day, at least on a dive of the level that we did last weekend, but not with his famous PADI-NAUI instructor Dad.

I think that the simpler and shallower the dive, the more likely I am to be willing to buddy with an unknown. I have turned down buddy offers when I was buddy-less because the dive plan or attitude just didn't feel right to me. But if I refused to dive with non-DIR buddies, I couldn't dive regularly. And that's just not a valid answer for me.

I think that DIR divers that are fortunate enough to have a local DIR community should be a little understanding of the folks that don't. Surely if its not DIR, it shouldn't be called DIR. But that shouldn't stop people from using what they have learned from DIR to be as safe as they can be. And to continue learning in that path.

 

[rlynch]

I just came from a dive charter with no-dir divers. In kohala Hawaii. It was a good trip. I normally introduce myself, go over air sharing with the long hose really quick, see what they are wearing and air share if needed on their rigs. Go over the plan with the dm and the group (dm usually does this, and I may or may not ask for clarification depending on how it goes, and gas strategy (usually discussed as the start ascent pressure and depending on the group size, more formal buddy's regardless on ascent I Buddy up with one of the group to make my ascent if they aren't interested in formal buddy's. On the dive I normally stay close to the dm, guide or my buddy.
I do talk about calling the dive for any reason as well,

DIR? Nope can't do that with just one person ( all I's and no team) .
Do I talk about DIR? Nope unless asked then I'll talk about where to get the training rather than the style.

Things I don't do..

Anything aggressive (I.e. I do all bunny dives)

Shove crap down people's throat, holier than thou types tend to get left. There are lots of styles and ours is just one.

Do anything stupid, today that included doing a swim through near my minimum gas pressure. I passed.

I'm the only diver in our family and so can't just depend on the dir community for buddies, otherwise I'd never dive on vacation.

Be safe, be smart, don't be an a-hole and everything will be fine.

Call me what you want, but I don't pretend every dive is DIR and make allowances for it and keep it at rec levels.

 

[jonnythan]

"Bunny dives"?

 

[TSandM]

I think of "bunny dives" as the diving equivalent of the bunny slopes in skiing.

I did a whole week of diving in the Sea of Cortez where the viz was at worst 20 feet, the water was full of sunlight, there was no current at all, and we never went deeper than 50 feet (and many dives, not deeper than 30). I figured I could extricate myself from darned near anything that could possibly happen on those dives -- I don't dive solo, but if I did, those were dives I'd contemplate doing alone. Furthermore, I figure I can handle myself while helping just about anybody else through anything else that can happen. I'd call those "bunny dives".

Anything that pushes the edge of my comfort zone, from depth, viz, temperature, current, exposure, boat support, or anything else, is NOT a bunny dive, and is going to require a buddy I'm comfortable with.

 

[jonnythan]

I think of "bunny dives" as the diving equivalent of the bunny slopes in skiing.

I did a whole week of diving in the Sea of Cortez where the viz was at worst 20 feet, the water was full of sunlight, there was no current at all, and we never went deeper than 50 feet (and many dives, not deeper than 30). I figured I could extricate myself from darned near anything that could possibly happen on those dives -- I don't dive solo, but if I did, those were dives I'd contemplate doing alone. Furthermore, I figure I can handle myself while helping just about anybody else through anything else that can happen. I'd call those "bunny dives".

Anything that pushes the edge of my comfort zone, from depth, viz, temperature, current, exposure, boat support, or anything else, is NOT a bunny dive, and is going to require a buddy I'm comfortable with.

That was my thought but he referred to bunny dives as aggressive. Or maybe he meant not doing anything aggressive means doing bunny dives.