difficulties of finding a diver's body

[ReefGuy]

Yeah, I had a friend who found a body off of the Oriskany. He spent about 3 hours towing his side scan around the wreck, found a couple of interesting looking contacts, jumped in, and found the body in about 15 minutes, he went to where the props should be, swam out 100 yards, and lo and behold, first contact.

It is very unlikely that anyone would put together a search with a gas other than 21/35 or even 20/20. The wreck is in 157 feet, and although you and I could dive it (and I have) on air, it just isn't the standard. Imagine the lawsuit when someone gets bent looking for a body for the county as a volunteer and helium wasn't provided. It just isn't prudent.

Agreed. This is the problem with taking on volunteer searchers for something like this: lawsuits. At this depth, any real (non sonar) search pattern is not going to be done on air.

IMO, the best chance to recover this person is by sidescan (as you described above), and I'd be looking hard in the water column, depending on how heavily he was weighted, exposure suit, etc. First and second float generate a lot of lift.

 

[Wookie]

Agreed. This is the problem with taking on volunteer searchers for something like this: lawsuits. At this depth, any real (non sonar) search pattern is not going to be done on air.

IMO, the best chance to recover this person is by sidescan (as you described above), and I'd be looking hard in the water column, depending on how heavily he was weighted, exposure suit, etc. First and second float generate a lot of lift.

If he's off the bottom, he's gone. I had a crewmember from Harris County, Texas Sheriff's Office Dive Team who told me that a body generates about 17 lbs of buoyancy as it decomposes. If those gases are trapped in a wetsuit, it may take days for them to escape. If he's buoyant, he's moving, and if he's moving, he could be anywhere.

It's blowing 25-30 today. Not much chance of anyone being out.

 

[ReefGuy]

If he's off the bottom, he's gone. I had a crewmember from Harris County, Texas Sheriff's Office Dive Team who told me that a body generates about 17 lbs of buoyancy as it decomposes. If those gases are trapped in a wetsuit, it may take days for them to escape. If he's buoyant, he's moving, and if he's moving, he could be anywhere.

It's blowing 25-30 today. Not much chance of anyone being out.

There are a lot of variables (including the last meal), but 17 is a fair estimate, imo. Unless he was grossly overweighted or entangled on the wreck, he's more than likely floated at least once, and probably twice. When we found our diver, he was on the surface (wearing an exposure suit, and missing one weight pouch), but I believe that he was entangled on the reef and disturbed by our search, or he would have been much further than 1/4 mile. Spent 12 hours that day on the bottom, found him after 15 minutes on the way back in (following the current).

Does anyone know If he was wearing an exposure suit, and if so, what kind?

 

[boulderjohn]

Once a body is buoyant in current, it can go a long way. Steve Feldman died on the U-869, and his body was accidentally found much later. Shadow Divers said his body was found about about 5 miles from where he died (196).

 

[dumpsterDiver]

We lost a tech instructor in Palm Beach (with two other divers) maybe 15 years ago in 300 ft. He arrived at the surface about 3 (or more?) weeks later 10-12 miles away... without his scuba harness. The other aspect is of course scavengers.

More recently, we have mounted a huge volunteer effort to find a lost scuba diver in Palm Beach. It was all volunteer (divers) and there was ZERO involvement by any government agency. All that is required from a governmental entity is to not close the site and unofficially allow a search to be conducted. They can even caution against it if they wish.

More recently than that event, when Wes Skiles died while diving locally, his very large and expensive video camera was lost and the police presumably wanted it recovered because it might have information relevant to the death. A few local divers had to wait about a day for the local police to conclude several dives. They jumped in and had the camera on the boat in 15 minutes.

Seems like a terrible shame that the recovery was prevented and after this weather and this amount of time, the odds are decreasing rapidly of a recovery.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Diver Missing on Vandenberg-Florida

View attachment body_float_info.pdf

A body will not be suspended in the water column. It will either be on the bottom or float. In more shallow water an initial float can occur in about an hour but then it is only momentary. The next float is permanent as it is caused by decomposition. The body can be hung up, but it will take a lot to hold a body down if the depth and pressure does not keep it from floating. Last spring a very large man was thrown off of a bridge and into the intercoastal near New Orleans. The water temp was mid 50's and depth about 30-40 feet. His hands and feet were bound but he surfaced after about a month with a 50 lb kettlebell tied to his legs. At this depth he will probably not float. If the bottom temp is 60 or below he will likely be where he drowned unless there is significant current. A body does not present a big target for current to move when laying down. The body is usually held down as the current goes over it. If the body is not found inside of the wreck the sector scanning sonar (Mesotech) is the best bet. Using this a survey can be done on the entire area around the Vandenberg. It sits on the bottom and when the target is located a diver on comms can follow the line to the unit and then be guided, and observed in real time, to the body. FWIW Mark
.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

We lost a tech instructor in Palm Beach (with two other divers) maybe 15 years ago in 300 ft. He arrived at the surface about 3 (or more?) weeks later 10-12 miles away... without his scuba harness. The other aspect is of course scavengers.

More recently, we have mounted a huge volunteer effort to find a lost scuba diver in Palm Beach. It was all volunteer (divers) and there was ZERO involvement by any government agency. All that is required from a governmental entity is to not close the site and unofficially allow a search to be conducted. They can even caution against it if they wish.

More recently than that event, when Wes Skiles died while diving locally, his very large and expensive video camera was lost and the police presumably wanted it recovered because it might have information relevant to the death. A few local divers had to wait about a day for the local police to conclude several dives. They jumped in and had the camera on the boat in 15 minutes.

Seems like a terrible shame that the recovery was prevented and after this weather and this amount of time, the odds are decreasing rapidly of a recovery.

In November I worked an operation concerning the crash of a Cessna 172. The last radar coordinates were 1 1/2 miles northeast of the runway in Lk Pontchartrain. The weather was bad. The main search began 6 days and about 12 hours after the crash. We recovered both bodies (depth 16' and temp 54 degrees) on the surface. One body was 2 miles from the last radar coordinates and the other 5 more miles west. The wind had moved them rapidly once they surfaced. The weather deteriorated and the mission was suspended because we had the bodies. We had 3 commercial sonar survey boats, New Orleans Fire boat Blaze (mine and their sonar deployed from that boat) for 3 days and had covered approx 3 miles by 8 miles in and around the last radar coordinates. The aircraft was not located or recovered.

After the operation was suspended I crunched the numbers from the radar data and plotted a few things using the bodies and wind directions and speeds that morning. I established a new search area. A few weeks later I was able to get out on the water. The winds are bad this time of year and wave action is rough. Windows of opportunity are scarce. I ran side scan sonar and found a good target in this area. Plotting the coordinates and the locations of the 2 bodies it (target) sits where it should. When I get another decent day I am going to dive on the target and verify whether it is, or is not, the aircraft. Here is an image of the target. If this is the aircraft the winds moved the furthest body about 8 miles in a few hours of surfacing.

 

[Jared0425]

That is a good hit, I believe that would be an aircraft. Also note that side scan has a difficult time with bodies, pine, and fiberglass because they mirror the density of the water around it. The most likely hit would be the head and chest cavity. We looked for multiple bridge jump victims this year and only "detected" one with the sonar. It depends on bottom, water conditions and temp, and what the victim is wearing.

 

[tomfcrist]

That is a good hit, I believe that would be an aircraft. Also note that side scan has a difficult time with bodies, pine, and fiberglass because they mirror the density of the water around it. The most likely hit would be the head and chest cavity. We looked for multiple bridge jump victims this year and only "detected" one with the sonar. It depends on bottom, water conditions and temp, and what the victim is wearing.

One would think that all the metal this guy was likely wearing would make it easier to pick up on sonar. Is that accurate?

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

One would think that all the metal this guy was likely wearing would make it easier to pick up on sonar. Is that accurate?

He should show. The operators experience and ability to interpret images is a huge benefit to how well a sonar will make a difference. It's not a magic wand, but it is a great tool if the operator has spent time using the unit and keeps a good search grid.

Has anyone been inside of the Vandenberg and cleared it? I haven't read every post so I may have missed a reason he would be outside if that has been stated already. Fingers crossed for the people searching. Mark Michaud