Did Learning Rebreather Improve you SAC rate?

Did Learning Rebreather Improve you SAC rate?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 13.3%
  • No

    Votes: 26 86.7%

  • Total voters
    30

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J-Vo

Contributor
Messages
893
Reaction score
1,073
Location
Lakewood, CO USA
# of dives
500 - 999
Before getting rebreather certified, I heard that SAC rates often degrade. However, my experience was different. Recently, I went on an open circuit cave trip in Mexico using a drysuit, sidemount, and doing primarily stage dives. My average SAC rate was 0.35 cuft/min. Before rebreather training, a SAC of 0.5 during a Caribbean NDL drift dive was good for me, and my normal SAC while cave diving was around 0.7. I won't adjust my rebreather bailout SAC based on this data, but I find it interesting that my experience differs from what I was told. Has anyone else experienced this?
 
My SAC rate increases when going back to OC dives, by perhaps about 10-15%. Mainly because I have a different breathing pattern on CCR and lost some sensitivity to how much gas I keep in my lungs. But it does get better after few dives.
 
Cum hoc ergo propter hoc? Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

My experience has been a general sac decline as I got more and more training. I marked yes on your poll but I wouldn’t attribute the sac decrease ONLY to CCR diving.
 
Perhaps you were overly focused on breathing to reduce SAC rather than breathing to reduce tension and stress? Ie unintentional skip or shallow breathing?
I'm not a CCR diver but my SAC greatly improved as I've taken more gas on dives. I think because I'm less focused on trying to stretch it.
 
I had an OC session in the FL caves after about 20 hours after MOD1, but my SAC was about the same as the SAC I had on drysuit dives prior to CCR training (about 0.60 cuft/min). Perhaps it wasn't long enough to corrupt me? :) OTOH, I did an OC session in MX (still drysuit) the day after my CCR training and had a SAC of 0.50 cuft/min, which is closer to my drift-dive/vacation SAC. My CCR BO drills have been pretty consistent at 0.6 cuft/min, but also cold water. Given the mixed evidence, I had to go with the null hypothesis. Maybe you secretly prefer Mexico? That or perhaps only imported one of your SM tanks. :p
 
No from CCR (stayed the same) but yes from cave training (significantly improved esp on cave dives).
 
I have not noticed a decrease in SAC rate from CCR but a busy year of OC stage cave diving has dropped mine from ~0.7cuft/min to ~0.5cuft/min.
 
I tend to attribute it to improved buoyancy. I had Full Cave and Trimix before getting the breather, and thought I had good or even excellent buoyancy, but I find my OC buoyancy greatly improved now that I have several hundreds of hours on the breather.
 
Stayed the same or gotten worse. I rested it recently - was not impressed. From now on, I'll dedicate the last portion of every cave dive to OC/BO exits.
 
Definitely got much, MUCH worse (I don't want to admit how much exactly :D).
I need to make a conscious effort to limit the SAC when say training BO or things get silly.

However - I am happy about it and I make sure my reflexes are "SAC high" on CCR.
From speaking to divers and instructors ten times more knowledgeable than I will even be - they think a lot of unexplained fatal accidents where very experienced divers, in perfect conditions and without any apparent reason just "freaked out" - were caused by CO2 induced "dark narc".
To the best of my knowledge CO2 retainer induced dark narc hasn't been researched much, but two things verifiably help with reducing CO2 risks - mix density and... breathing pattern.
When kept within reason of course - breathing deep and a lot is simply safer (and more relaxed, no feeling of restriction).
You can put pure heliox in your dil but it won't help you much if you breathe too slow and/or shallow to remove all CO2 in time.
There's another aspect of it - where sofno starts losing efficiency due to loss of temperature in very cold waters if hot gas and CO2 is not delivered to it fast enough. Again more pondering than being able to point to research papers.

From personal experience I can recall a very weird dive which we had just after certification. Water temp was 6-8C, outside temp -2C (after a walk to the water the scrubber was probably quite cold even with prebreathe), we were chilling shallow around 15m hanging by a wall and relaxing.
First and last time in my life I suddenly had a hard to explain bout of stress and feeling of danger, without any reason at all.
It's hard to explain, not full "out of control" panic, but really, really bad "knot in the stomach, hair raising on the neck" dread.
I also clearly recall the feeling of "needing to get out of here".
I managed to control myself and it passed. In retrospective my best guess (after just being crazy :D ) is that when relaxing I started breathing around 12-14 SAC and maybe shallow as it was true bliss to finally relax on CCR, which cooled the sofno past the efficiency limit, didn't vent the lungs enough and caused blood CO2 buildup.
From other situations I know I'm a retainer sadly.
Stress panting removed it when dread hit me and allowed me to control the situation.
Luckily there was no deco, but if it continued at big deph/deco I dread what could have happened if it started building up more and more.

Apologies for a long rambling, but I thought that other responses while completely valid missed the point that on CCR the OC obsession with lowering the SAC is not only pointless, but may kill you.

Breathe away compadres! :)
 

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