Deep Diving without Nitrox

[H2Andy]

So in this case the only advantage will be a short Surface Time Interval.

don't forget the recommended 1 hour minimum surface interval when diving Nitrox

 

[Hammerhead]

The following is a quote from Page 6 of the PADI Instructor Training Bulletin for Second Quarter 2006

As a result, effective immediately, the PADI Enriched Air Diver course no longer requires dives, though they are still recommended.

Am I alone in considering this quite an astonishingly bad idea?

On air, you go too deep, you get narked but there's a good chance you can (with or without assistance) recover and make it to the surface without any lasting damage, provided you get quick and appropriate care when you get there.

On Nitrox, you go too deep, you ox-tox and I think most will agree that the prognosis from there is pretty grim.

My point is that an additional couple of dives (required) to fine-tune bouyancy and awareness are beneficial in any case, but especially when someone losing track of depth whilst breathing Nitrox has such a potentailly devastating consequence.

Here's an extreme, but possible scenario - diver X gets dive ticket + ticket for Nitrox having only ever done a Nitrox dive in theory. 6 months later he's going to use the ticket for the first time on holiday.

He arrives at the dive resort, the group he joins is going to do a 28m drift dive on Nitrox. He's got the card, does a quick checkout on his skills (assuming this happens!) and jumps in the water.

After 20 mins, the bottom slopes away and it's time to ascend, but our boy is still new to this, loving it & not paying enough attention to his depth. He follows the bottom down, his buddy misses him after 1-2 mins (hey, did you see the thresher shark out there? No, where? Right out there, past that bommie! Which Bommie? Over by the, hang on, where's X? It can happen).

Meanwhile 25m down, X has ox-toxed, spat out his reg, breathed a good couple of lungfuls of the old briny and is pretty much toast.

Impossible? Don't bet the farm on it.

 

[El Orans]

Am I alone in considering this quite an astonishingly bad idea?

On air, you go too deep, you get narked but there's a good chance you can (with or without assistance) recover and make it to the surface without any lasting damage, provided you get quick and appropriate care when you get there.

On Nitrox, you go too deep, you ox-tox and I think most will agree that the prognosis from there is pretty grim.

My point is that an additional couple of dives (required) to fine-tune bouyancy and awareness are beneficial in any case, but especially when someone losing track of depth whilst breathing Nitrox has such a potentially devastating consequence.

Though the scenario you create is possible, I don't think that those 2 dives will make a difference.

 

[Hammerhead]

True enough, but two dives where you are thinking about your depth constantly because you have only just been talking about the possible consequences are more likely to stick in your mind than something you were told in the classroom 6 months ago amongst all the other guff.

A massive difference - maybe not. A difference - I think so.

 

[shugar]

True enough, but two dives where you are thinking about your depth constantly because you have only just been talking about the possible consequences are more likely to stick in your mind than something you were told in the classroom 6 months ago amongst all the other guff.

A massive difference - maybe not. A difference - I think so.

this might sound like cow manure but larry's got a point... at least if constructivist learning theories have anything to say about it

OTH i see why PADI would cross out dives as a req = no other agency requires it - so if i'm a budget diver who CAN afford the course, CAN i afford the extra expense to actually go and dive BEFORE i get the cert?

but larry does make sense... that's why he's my hero

Jag

 

[matti_anttila]

but... you don't even have to do that. PADI and others have actually dropped the checkout-dive requirement from Nitrox.

PADI did that on 2nd Q / 2006, as mentioned already in this thread:
http://www.padimembers.com/Members/...nglish/International/pdfs/2nd-Qtr-2006-TB.pdf
(requires PADI membership and password)

and IANTD did that already in its Jan-2001 Standards and Procedures update:
http://www.iantd.com/standards/IANTD_Standards_2003[1].pdf
(see IANTD Standards 2003, page 28)

I have conducted EANx dives in both IANTD EANx Diver course and PADI Enriched Air
Diver Specialty Course still, but as said, they are not mandatory. However, it is not
forbidden to do the dives, so your student may appreciate the chance. And remember
your first EANx dive? Boy, it was great to inhale "something different"! So why not
give this chance to your students too!
The "not required" option may be used as a tool: If, for example, your student has
problems with sinus equalization after the first dive, you may say that "hey, no
problem, you did a great and safe dive already with nitrox once! It's enough, get your
brand new C-card and go nitrox diving some other day!"

 

[HilaryRN71]

Diver X was toast with or without the Nitrox check out dives because he had inherently bad judgement.

 

[H2Andy]

Am I alone in considering this quite an astonishingly bad idea?

i don't think it's a bad idea

finally people are recongizing that Nitrox, the "voodoo gas" ain't rocket science.
if the student feels they need further help, they can arrange for the dives.


test your mix
figure out MOD
don't go below it
keep track of your O2 clock

it's not rocket science

 

[cummings66]

I didn't believe it's a bad idea to eliminate the dives, although I did the dives I did not have to. What did I learn from the dives on NitrOx? Not much I'll tell you. There is no difference diving NitrOx vs diving air beyond the dangers and additional planning you need to do, all of which is covered in the class.

Two dives is not enough to buy you anything, if you suck bad enough that you can't control your buoyancy then you're sure not going to get it down in two dives anyhow and should have a refresher course before diving.

For me and why I like doing the dives, it's more dives. Pure and simple I get to get wet, well not really since I dive a drysuit, but I get more bottom time and that's enough reason for me.

 

[Hammerhead]

i don't think it's a bad idea

finally people are recongizing that Nitrox, the "voodoo gas" ain't rocket science.
if the student feels they need further help, they can arrange for the dives.

You're right, but you're also trusting a virtual noob to make an informed decision on what they "feel".

Straying briefly back on topic, said noob may "feel" he's ready for a 90fsw solo dive, whereas virtually any experienced diver would advise them to build their skills up first.

test your mix
figure out MOD
don't go below it
keep track of your O2 clock

it's not rocket science

Again, you're right - not rocket science.

BUT you're assuming that the guy's going to remember the inherent extra danger of going deep.

As I said

two dives where you are thinking about your depth constantly because you have only just been talking about the possible consequences are more likely to stick in your mind than something you were told in the classroom 6 months ago amongst all the other guff.