Deco Musings: What is an experienced diver?

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Manatee Diver

Stop throwing lettuce at me!
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TLDR: What really is an experienced diver, because I don’t feel like one.

So, this might be a bit disjointed as this post is spurred on by the thoughts I had while sitting for 25 minutes of deco after my 400th dive the other day, and the boredom of having to wait for the hurricane to pass by close enough to close things but not close enough to cause any major hazard. I often spend that time going over my dive and then just sinking into my thoughts, which in a world where we are constantly being stimulated is kind of nice, particularly in the previous 90 minutes where my head was entirely on the dive and not thinking about the outside world at all.

Speaking of the dive, it was fantastic, I went to the Ice Room, I had been working on most of the last few dives to lay the groundwork to get to this room. It is mildly difficult to get to, it is about 2,000ft into the cave with the last 800ft being sections that are fairly low that require careful swimming. It is a rarely visited room due to the difficultly, as luck would have it a local instructor was taking his DPV students to that room, and they were in backmount. We met at the last jump, and it was pretty silty getting worse as I progressed down the line, getting to around 5ft at the worst, until I get through the final low section to the room, like breaking through the clouds in an airplane suddenly it was the normal 50+ft Ginnie clear vis, and I am in a stunningly large room that with exception of the domed ceiling was largely Ginnie’s natural black color.

But going back to my deco thoughts, while gearing up for the dive I often get distracted chatting with people I know. On this day I was talking to someone that I met during my early days of cave training, and I mentioned that this would be my 400th logged dive and a majority of which were cave dives. He said after seeing me the prior week leading a newish cave diver on his first dive to the Henkle, that I almost seemed like an instructor going over the dive plan with him extensively making sure he understood everything. That it was interesting seeing the transformation from a new cave student to an experienced cave diver capable of mentoring others.

The reality is that the extensive briefing was masking my insecurities, I felt that he was going to rely too much on me and wanted to transfer as much of the responsibility back to him as I could. Having him lead in, and check arrows to make sure he knew where he was. That way if something went wrong at least he could have a decent cave map in his head, which I feel makes it easier to deal with emergencies.

Because I don’t feel like an experienced diver. On every dive I see and learn something new, even when going to areas that I’ve been to dozens of times before. I don’t feel like an instructor that probably has done these dives thousands of times and as such it is routine. That they have the experience to be the safety net that new students need.

Maybe it is because I never really had a plan when I got into diving and then cave diving. My deco instructor, James Blackman of Miami Technical Diving, did a video recently for the start of his trip to the nuclear fleet in Bikini Atoll. He mentioned that you should have a goal to work toward and a plan to reach it. The thing is, I’ve never really had one. I got into diving on a whim. I got into cave diving as a combination of wanting to be a wreck diver to see WWII wrecks and enjoying a cenote dive in Mexico. I don’t have a grand plan; I just want to see what is around the next corner. Just as I knew that I would eventually get into DPV diving when the time is right, I know eventually I will have to go CCR once I reach the limits of what I can do OC.

Even with that knowledge, I simply don’t have any goals in mind. Sure, it would be nice to visit the various deep rooms in Eagles Nest, but that isn’t really the goal. Simply to keep pushing into areas where logistically it would be hard to do on OC. So, thinking back I never really saw any plateaus in my diving in the past nor do I really see any in the future. As such I have a hard time considering myself an experienced cave diver.

Well, I am going back to watching my palm fronds get blown off my trees.
 
Great piece! I believe that you, sir, have become an experienced diver. I have been reading your write-ups since the beginning. You may not have a "grand plan," but you are methodical and set (minor?) goals that you work toward. That's my understanding of how one becomes experienced, not going for some big goal. Eagles' Nest?!

I have come to the realization that I will never become an experienced cave diver, because I just don't dive enough, and I'm in my early 60s. I will continue to enjoy my baby cave dives as long as I can, though. You, however, seem to keep plugging away at it and having fun in the process. The videos, for example. And DPV. You made it to the Ice Room, which I had never even heard of. I'll never swim to the Henkel, and DPV is in neither the time nor money budget. From my perspective, you're doing great, and you have become experienced. I guess it's difficult to see oneself.
 
What scares me is the routine. As you become more experienced and comfortable, you might miss a blind spot - you don’t know what you don’t know.

I recently listened to a podcast with Patrick Widman where he said you need to be a cave instructor to get really good at cave diving - because it allows you to observe other people fail (and debrief) in so many situations. Many more situations than you would ever experience through your normal diving, even with thousands of complex dives.

Sometimes when I see clearly experienced people on boats, I wonder if we are all not just lucky survivors - diving in extreme environments and staying alive not due to experience but due to sheer luck and the fact that accidents simply don’t happen that frequently to occur in the first x (few hundred? few thousand?) dives.
 
The reality is that the extensive briefing was masking my insecurities, I felt that he was going to rely too much on me and wanted to transfer as much of the responsibility back to him as I could. Having him lead in, and check arrows to make sure he knew where he was. That way if something went wrong at least he could have a decent cave map in his head, which I feel makes it easier to deal with emergencies.
Before even I continue reading— this is the best thing I read in the last few years about skill, experience and confidence/insecurity; also a very healthy approach that I try to apply for diving and work life..
Ok I’ll continue reading now
 
I think your initial question is interesting in that context matters. In your case, it sounds like you're really asking "am I an experienced diver?"

But what's your yard/meter stick for measuring this? It could be any number of things:

1. A person who has "experienced" diving might be called an experienced diver, though that's a stretch in my mind.

2. I've seen news stories, usually when a diver has gone missing or died, that say "Joe Schmoe was an experienced diver." When I know details, they almost always turn out to be somebody that may, at best, have done AOW and certainly have fewer than 30 logged dives. In that sense, it seems the press treats somebody as an experienced diver if they've done a few dives after OW training. And compared to their audience, they are experienced.

3. If writing to an audience like ScubaBoard, I suspect the standard is much higher. Our missing diver from point 2 would never be called experienced here.

4. Experienced at what kind of diving? You could do 1,000's of deco dives where I live, and never see a cave. You might never do a surf entry. You'd certainly have a lot of diving experience, but not at all kinds of diving or in all conditions. I have zero experience diving under ice, and hope to keep it that way for a long, long time....
 
Diving for me was never a "direction". It was fluid (no pun intended) there were always things I wanted to see, so my diving would progress towards that "goal" sort of speak and I would seek out proper instruction to fill those voids. But I always went back to were I started.

In 1992 I saw an article on the Hydro Atlantic, at that time my diving was normal recreational stuff down to about 115'. But that article made me want to see that wreck, so I read some books, added some gear and found a boat that was going to the Hydro. Did the dive, realized I was way over my head and started tech classes. Kept looking at deeper wrecks, and progressed to trimix. Cave was a bit different, but I progressed to see further into the cave.

That said, as I quickly close on my 50th year of diving, I still spend hours snorkeling off the beach on extremely shallow reefs and I still love beach diving. And inquis is correct, the more dives I do, that more I see and experience. I love the water, no real goals necessary.

 
But what's your yard/meter stick for measuring this? It could be any number of things:

. . .

4. Experienced at what kind of diving? You could do 1,000's of deco dives where I live, and never see a cave. You might never do a surf entry. You'd certainly have a lot of diving experience, but not at all kinds of diving or in all conditions. I have zero experience diving under ice, and hope to keep it that way for a long, long time....

I interpreted the context of the comment as cave diving, though he posted it under Tech Diving generally. Judging from what I have seen and read, he seems to have entered the middle world of what cave divers are doing--beyond what we "inexperienced" cave divers are doing.

Maybe in cave diving--even more so than open water tech diving--there is a fairly clear path of progression. And he seems to be well down the path, well beyond the new "full cave diver" point, having gotten into cave DPV, stages, etc., not to mention progression in the sense of having gradually ventured in the farther reaches of the cave as his experience presumably informed him he was ready to do. If one follows the sage advice of "progressive penetration" to learn a cave like Ginnie, gradually venturing into farther and more challenging places using the tools, knowledge and confidence they have gradually accumulated, it seems to me that you could almost literally correlate it with the term "experience."
 
I recently listened to a podcast with Patrick Widman where he said you need to be a cave instructor to get really good at cave diving - because it allows you to observe other people fail (and debrief) in so many situations. Many more situations than you would ever experience through your normal diving, even with thousands of complex dives.

Yeah it is better to learn from the mistakes of others than to learn them all for yourself. All my cave classes my buddies were already cave divers, so I feel like I missed the opportunity of seeing all the mistakes that other make. But with my disability I would probably hold others behind.

4. Experienced at what kind of diving? You could do 1,000's of deco dives where I live, and never see a cave. You might never do a surf entry. You'd certainly have a lot of diving experience, but not at all kinds of diving or in all conditions. I have zero experience diving under ice, and hope to keep it that way for a long, long time....

Pretty much only really thinking about specific tech diving, once you leave tech diving you start getting into depth vs breath arguments.

In 1992 I saw an article on the Hydro Atlantic, at that time my diving was normal recreational stuff down to about 115'. But that article made me want to see that wreck, so I read some books, added some gear and found a boat that was going to the Hydro. Did the dive, realized I was way over my head and started tech classes. Kept looking at deeper wrecks, and progressed to trimix. Cave was a bit different, but I progressed to see further into the cave.

Early 90s, that would've been in the early days of Billy Deans teaching trimix.
 
But with my disability I would probably hold others behind.

Hah!

Years ago, I was passing through an intermediate staging base and a Weapons Sergeant (18B on an SFOD-A) rolled into the operations center, picked up his prosthetic hand off the charger, stuck his forearm into it, turned it on and then touched all his mechanical fingers to his mechanical thumb. It was clear he was conducting a functions check. He looked at me, smiled and said, “Time to rock and roll.”

I don’t think he slowed his team down.

It’s your time, brother, to be the most bad-ass enabled cave diver the world has ever seen. The fact that a pair of socks last you longer than everybody else makes you a smarter, more disciplined diver.
 
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