Deceptive LDS practices..RANT...

[RonFrank]

We read a LOT about supporting the LDS, the ethics of purchasing scuba gear online, and how our LDS's are a dying breed because of OUR misplaced purchase habits, and how the LDS has OUR best interest at heart.

Here's an example of a practice that my LDS uses that is upsetting. This LDS offers students a 20% discount on equipment.

While in the store looking at some booties, I noticed something odd. The booties I was interested in were not only MUCH higher priced vs. online stores (not just LP), I realized they were priced well OVER MSRP. In fact 20%!!

I started looking a bit at other items that I was familiar with, and after doing a few comparisons where I could find the MSRP listed, ALL personal gear was marked up about 20% BEYOND MSRP.

Rather than actually discounting personal gear for students (which I guess is the Lionshare of their retail biz), they mark the stuff up, and sell the gear under the false impression that students are getting a deal.

I was rather disgusted to learn this.

The OW classes require nothing in the way of gear for confined water. However the OW dives do NOT include ANY personal gear, and they strongly encourage EVERYONE to purchase their gear from them to *take advantage* of the big discount. They do rent this stuff, but discourage this strongly as you NEED this stuff at a minimum.

The instructor even did the don't purchase online bit. Basically he said anything purchased used outside a LDS was dangerous (EBAY), and anything online NEW could not have a waranty (false) and was most likely a fake. He used the famous example of the scubapro reg with non scubapro parts (urban legend or truth??).

On the up side, I do really like the facilities, and instructors at this LDS, and plan on continue to use them for education. However I'm none to thrilled with their retail store, and they do a sell on their equipment during the training which based on how the instructor went over it, I'm sure is a requirement from the DS management.

I have news for the diving public, THIS LDS is alive and well, and doing a great biz based in part on equipment mis-information in a setting where the instructors words are taken as fact.

Most of the students in the class I did purchased their personal gear from the LDS to the tune of about $300-$350 for masks/fins/snorkel/booties. I wish we had a ScubaToys here!!!

Ron

 

[OneBrightGator]

Just a bit of clarification. With most manufacturers it's a MRRP, minimum required retail price, not MSRP. Also, note it's a Minimum, retailers are authorized to sell the gear at any price above MRRP they choose. They are also getting 20% less when someone purchases with a student discount then those that pay the listed price.

If you don't like the way a business does business, then don't patronize them.

 

[mccabejc]

I kinda agree with Mr. Gator. I mean, he is bright and all...

And I think that if you found out the markups charged in other businesses, your head would explode. That doesn't justify it, of course. Just puts it in perspective.

In my view it's not a matter of right and wrong, or being deceptive, it's more a matter of what you and others are willing to pay before you turn around and go elsewhere.

 

[Warren_L]

It's also a matter of what sort of relationship you want to develop with the LDS. It is common to see markups like that then combined with discounts for taking courses. In the end perhaps you're paying the MRRP - things could be worse. For me, my shop will fix things out of warranty for next to nothing. Free air fills. And as an instructor, I get teaching opportunities.

 

[yknot]

Relationships and such aside, why do divers keep expecting that LDS's are somehow less prone to creative marketing techniques than a used car lot? After all, isn't your LDS in business to make a profit? Did you think that they were only there to sell cheap classes, with gear sales being a peripheral sideline activity? Just be a smart consumer and patronize your LDS when the situation works for you (which will be different than when it works for someone else). Most new divers are too intimidated by the whole thing to buy off the internet. That fact alone will keep most LDS's in business, provided they have a goog local base of incoming new divers.

 

[MakoMermaid]

I understand where Ron is coming from. I've been shopping for a dive computer recently. I'm interested in a particular Oceanic model, so I first went to the Oceanic site to do some research -- read the specs and manual, run the demo, etc. Oceanic lists the MSRP (not an MRRP) on their website at $899.95. I then went to my LDS Oceanic dealer, just to find they're selling that model for $949.95. Now I've worked retail, and I know darn well that the MSRP includes a comfortable markup for the retailer (usually 40-60% for other merchandise; I don't know how scuba gear compares). I'm not looking for a discount off the MSRP, but I do expect to be able to buy an item for the price posted by Oceanic. I'd like to support my LDS, but frankly, the Divers Direct catalog is looking better and better.

 

[RonFrank]

Relationships and such aside, why do divers keep expecting that LDS's are somehow less prone to creative marketing techniques than a used car lot? After all, isn't your LDS in business to make a profit? Did you think that they were only there to sell cheap classes, with gear sales being a peripheral sideline activity? Just be a smart consumer and patronize your LDS when the situation works for you (which will be different than when it works for someone else). Most new divers are too intimidated by the whole thing to buy off the internet. That fact alone will keep most LDS's in business, provided they have a goog local base of incoming new divers.

I guess I was more put off by the fact the instructor was telling half truths (OK IMO lies) when it came to gear purchase. Basically saying purchase from the LDS, or it's a HUGE and potentially life threatening mistake during a CLASS while students nodded their heads like they were on springs.

I am VERY sure that this is not something he has any choice in saying.

As I said, I like the facility, and instructors, but if the LDS wants us to believe they are doing everything with the customers BEST interest in mind, that is a load of BS. I was sad to discover they DO use the very deceptive sales techniques that I've found in other retail markets.

I guess the main difference they throw in the whole "if you don't, it could be your life" line on top.

Speaking for myself, I have purchased used gear, and gear online. It's just hard to watch the 17 year old dude in the class spend $300 personal gear which he can barely afford when he could have purchased online for under $200 in the name of the dive shop owners spending yet another four weeks in Fuji diving.

Ron

 

[wedivebc]

A dive shop has the right to charge as much as they want just as you have the right to shop where ever you want. Having said that the equipment manufacturers dictate to the retailer how much they should charge. Retailers often undercut that in order to stay competitive in their market and are often critcized or even threatened my the manufacturer when ignoring minimum suggested pricing. Along comes online stores, they sell huge amounts of gear so the manufacturer either looks the other way or pretends not to know the source of the gear. The online store gets a volume discount and seels for much less than the manufacturers suggested price. They all make money.
So who loses? The little dive store owner trying to make a living while sitting around the store all day waing for someone to buy a snorkel keeper or bring in their air card for a free fill. They then watch these same divers with their shiney new regs and drysuits complain about why they can't get everything at the same price as they can on the internet.
The dive store is a dinosaur, the internet is changing the way we all are doing business and the dive store owner is bearing the brunt of this transition right now. A dive store owner will have to change with the times to stay in business these days

 

[RonFrank]

Just a bit of clarification. With most manufacturers it's a MRRP, minimum required retail price, not MSRP. Also, note it's a Minimum, retailers are authorized to sell the gear at any price above MRRP they choose. They are also getting 20% less when someone purchases with a student discount then those that pay the listed price.

If you don't like the way a business does business, then don't patronize them.

I was looking at MSRP (Manufacture's suggested Retail Price), not MRRP which is generally not available to the public. I've done enough retail to understand most of the tricks, and Yes, I know the markups involved in many retail goods.

As for not partinizing them, I have no plans on purchasing retail goods from them at this point.

But I have little choice but to sit quiet when I'm in a class and the instructor goes into *salesman* mode. I doubt any of the other LDS's do things much differently. In fact the other shop I was interested in has a statement on their website basically presenting the same mis-information about purchasing gear from anyone other than them.

Ron

 

[android]

Relationships and such aside, why do divers keep expecting that LDS's are somehow less prone to creative marketing techniques than a used car lot?

Car dealers, both new and used, have spent most of the last century building up a reputation of shady and dishonest business practices. Are you suggesting that dive shops do the same?