Death at Dutch Springs

[chillyinCanada]

If you know something say so, if you don't then I hypothetically submit that all of the other divers were aware of the situation.

 

[RJP]

If you know something say so, if you don't then I hypothetically submit that all of the other divers were aware of the situation.

So it's your hypothesis that MULTIPLE people knew that the victim "disappeared" but that none of them said anything for several hours?

 

[DiverGirl1972]

So it's your hypothesis that MULTIPLE people knew that the victim "disappeared" but that none of them said anything for several hours?

RJP, these are your own words on 9/11: "You say he was "noticed" missing at 11:30. The newspaper said "reported" missing at 11:30. My guess would be that he was "noticed" missing much earlier than that, Dutch staff went into response mode, (I've been there when they have... they have their s**t together) and when they couldn't locate him they "reported" a missing diver to the authorities at 11:30. That is most likely the "report" that the papers are citing, going off the 911 call, not Dutch staff being notified by other divers."

Do you know that they waited "several hours" before making a report? Again, why not share any information you might know regarding the timeline or anything else to help the discussion versus just being argumentative? If, hypothetically, it was assumed that the diver did "ditch" his buddy intentionally and/or the group at large, I'm sure there could have been other factors that might have delayed the realization that he was missing.

Where was the victim's car/gear? Was it anywhere near where his buddy or the group had his gear set up? Were the other divers present in the group experience or inexperienced? The diver was experienced by all accounts. More inexperienced divers might not have awareness to think that anything bad could actually happen to an experienced diver in conditions as relatively "benign" as the ones at Dutch. They just don't know what they don't know.

I've done night dives at Dutch as plenty of others on SB have. You get out, it's the last dive of the day, some people are camping, some people are trying to get their gear packed up so that they can get out of the gates in time. It's dark, it's the last dive of the day so you're probably heading up to the showerhouse to use the facilities, get changed, maybe take a shower, etc... There is usually a lot of rushing around at the end of the night dive, which could easily lead to distraction, which in turn, could lead to a delay in a realization that something was wrong.

 

[S_Brown]

Some very good points

 

[KarenMc]

Hi all...I am new to Scuba Board and relatively new to diving, so take it easy on me please. I joined this site because I was at Dutch Springs when this incident occurred and was hoping to find out exactly what went wrong. I see that there are still more questions than answers, unfortunately. The only points that I can safely add to the discussion is that (1) staff were going tent-to-tent looking for the missing diver around midnight, and (2) the car that was driven up on to the tow truck between midnight and 4 am was the same car that my buddy saw driving quickly down to the water around the cutoff time for entering the water for the night dive, around 8:30 pm. Our assumption from this second observation was that the victim was a rushed diver.

As you can imagine, there was a lot of speculation at the quarry in the morning, and it is difficult to know what was valid and what was not. Take this as third hand information, but I heard that the victim entered the water with a buddy but the buddy couldn't equalize his ears on descent and resurfaced. When he descended, the victim was gone. Since both were certified as solo divers, he continued the dive on his own. I had not heard that there was a group of divers, but again, I may not have heard the whole story. I only offer this information because I thought it would help the discussion.

 

[ams511]

That's not what she said RJP.

But this is the way plantiff's attorneys will spin it.

 

[S_Brown]

Well that is a critical piece of the puzzle.

And this should be obvious, but I did not remember seeing it. Two buddies, one has a scooter, the other does not. This will require some serious dive planning and it REQUIRES that the diver w/o scooter must lead the dive and the scooter diver follows him, at HIS pace and buzzes around him. Even in the best of conditions, with highly experienced divers and good vis- this type of arrangement has 2 strikes against it with regard to maintaining good buddy contact. Trying to do it in the dark would make it even more difficult.



If they did not have DETAILED discussion of this and a firmly agreed upon dive plan, their buddy system was of little or no value from the instant they hit the water.

Two divers, both rated for solo diving, are diving at night when Dutch doesn't allow solo diving....one has a scooter and one doesn't. One diver doesn't report the other missing until sometime after completing his dive. With all the uber-intelligent people on this thread, I'm sure someone can do the math....without bringing unicorns into the equation again....

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Two divers, both rated for solo diving, are diving at night when Dutch doesn't allow solo diving....one has a scooter and one doesn't. One diver doesn't report the other missing until sometime after completing his dive. With all the uber-intelligent people on this thread, I'm sure someone can do the math....without bringing unicorns into the equation again....

Yeah that was my point. I don't see some huge amount of liability on the part of the "buddy". It appears quite possible that the divers chose to dive solo.

I dove there years ago and tried to dive solo. they had a freaking fit and made me pair up with some other divers. I agreed and then they wanted to swim way out on the surface, I reluctantly agreed and when we were ready to descend, my assigned buddy was totally ignoring me while I tried to talk with him on the surface. It was pretty ridiculous and I was getting pissed how seemingly rude he was ..with his failure to even acknowledge that I was talking to him on the surface - let alone answer me.

I just figured, screw it, I will try to dive with him and the others and if I lose them, who cares. they can kick me out.. I am done diving by then anyway. We ended up staying together and I did not know until we got to shore that the guy they paired me up with was totally deaf!

 

[openmindOW]

I did not know until we got to shore that the guy they paired me up with was totally deaf!

Bet ya' the staff knew.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Bet ya' the staff knew.

his buddy knew.. I kinda figured it out underwater,, they were having complete hand sign conversations between each other.