DAN missed the boat ...

[bowlofpetunias]

These comments about team diving are interesting. I have never heard of it before... certainly not in training.
I guess I am lucky. We have developed a group of dive friends we dive with regularly.... so regularly that a number of people have turned up on our regular dive time and day and just invited themselves to join us.
Because of issues of people following poor buddy procedures we have decided to become a "closed group". There are 8 of us and we do our own verson of team diving. We all watch out for each other most of us take pictures. While we dive as a group we still have buddy pairs and in poor viz we declare 'tight buddy pairs". Unless it is a tight buddy pair situation we are not necessarily in toughing range of our buddy but will be in visual range.
We are always within reach of someone in the group. The only lost buddy situations we have had have resulted in someone being asked to leave the group! We do follow appropriate buddy procedures and we do not take to kindly to aborting a dive for a careless/thoughtless buddy!
The insta buddies have been the worst ones (check out) Dumb Buddies and underwater stunts thread.

I think Dan did miss the opportunity to review proper buddy procedures but I do think spare air is a good idea. Remember OOA isn't the only reason we have buddies..... illness, entanglement, and a multitude of other things can go wrong with equipment and the human body underwater. There are many things that we can not self solve.

 

[SlowRain]

Maybe I am being to simplistic, but I tend to want to look for what is the root cause of the problem. Again...being simplistic:

1) Apparently the divers were in a cold water environment. Were they geared with cold water equipment (i.e. cold water regulators)? If not..that is a contributing cause.
2) The buddy system broke down. That could be either a training issue or lack of adherence by the divers, or even possibily both.
3) Poor judgment on the part of the first diver in that he surfaced, and then elected to submerge again with virtually no gas in his tank and to potentially a depth where common sense would dictate either abstaining or at least if available, getting a fresh tank.

Throwing money (equipment) at the problem is an instinctual reaction, but while it is a fix, it is not a solution. We can what-if this to death. So let's give one of the diver's a pony tank in this situation. With the diver who remained at depth, since they had lost contact, possession of a pony during this dive doesn't change anything since the other diver surfaced, re-submerged and subsequently ran out of air.

What if we gave the other diver a pony? Well he surfaced, and now might elect to re-submerge to find the lost buddy (I am assuming that since he decided with 500 psi to go down that having a pony would only reinforce this thinking). I would submit that his having a pony might have made things worse as possibily he does nothing more than get deeper for longer looking for the lost partner. At the very best he manages his gas to get himself to the surface, at the worst he runs himself near dry again only now he has a much more dire set of circumstances to deal with.

This was apparently a low viz dive, and I think you could probably rest blame with both divers for not having a solid plan around lost buddy actions, or perhaps they did and the lack of adherence is just as suspect. (Plans are wonderful but are meaningless unless followed).

In my mind, and again I wasn't there, this appears to be more of a training issue than a lack of equipment issue. Throwing equipment at poor procedures, either poor training or a lack of adherence to training, and poor judgment will not solve problems, and in fact creates the risk of new ones. Still, I am sure sales of pony bottles and regulators are going to see an increase because of this. I am not against that, but have one for the right reason and not to put a band-aid on a bullet hole.

I guess there is a limit to what you can cram into basic openwater training, and perhaps it is up to the instructor to ensure that skills receive the appropriate emphasis. Beyond that you are now talking about some sort of change on the agencies material and that is a tougher nut. Because we have routine access to more information (internet, etc) and as a whole the population is looking at what is economical and can be delivered quickly, I don't think the agencies are going to make basic open water longer.

There were good points made around the fact that people on this board spend a lot more time and effort (not to mention money) on advanced training. Believe me the people here are NOT the majority of divers and to think so is really quite foolish. To think that all divers should be is a great thought and theory, but that is all it will ever be because the fact is that the vast majority of divers get themselves through basic openwater, and maybe some through advanced open water and even throw in basic nitrox since it is cheap and pretty much a no brainer at this stage. Beyond that is wishful thinking.

I am not saying that is right...but it is pretty much the way it is. Yep you and your "group" might be tight...but that doesn't cover 10 million certified open water divers. I remember going through a class (I think it was advanced nitrox) and one of the skills was shooting a lift bag and then doing your deco on it. The instructor specifically said in the pre-dive brief to be mindful of your buoyancy control during setup for deployment and that he would be grading on it. I watched as a diver was given the signal to begin, and got fascinated enough in hooking his reel and bag together that he missed the fact he was sinking like a brick. He was a scuba instructor. Skills issues are not restricted to new students...I have seen plenty of "experienced" divers who had just as many challenges.

If you teach...then use your position to try and give your students the best set of skills you can. Use examples like this one to emphasize the importance of things like the buddy system. Again...we can train students to the point of lunacy, but if the situation is the divers choosing not to adhere to the rules, then training is not the issue, and lack of common sense is.

As I said in my prior post...my attitude on every dive in regards to depending on my buddy to "save me" is that it is incumbant on me to save myself. To lull yourself into an attitude of "if something goes wrong my partner will bail me out" is just begging for trouble, but then I would trust that most of the divers on this board already know that.

 

[LarryHinDC]

You will never be able to teach some people to be a good buddy. No matter what class you send them to.

You're right on about this; some folks don't want to learn this or don't care. But I don't think they are the majority.

Those that are/will be a good buddy are easy to spot. It's not a learned behavior. ... Even newbs like me, it's easy to spot. From day one I was stuck to my buddy like glue, because I understand the principle of the buddy system.

Here's where I disagree with you; I know I've learned to be a better buddy as I've dived more. And I bet you learned how to be a good buddy, but for you the training came before you learned to dive -- in the police academy -- so it came natural to you.

I don't think most newbie divers don't want to be good buddies. Newbie divers have a hard time being aware of where their buddies are because they are still in such a new environment. Besides awareness of where their buddy is, they need to be aware of their own remaining air, depth, buoyancy, trim, all of which is new to them. As they become more comfortable in the new environment, it becomes possible for them to become better buddies. And in cases where a newbie is paired with a more experienced diver, the experienced diver can be a better buddy by recognizing this and taking the lead in maintaining contact by and making suggestions pre- and post-dive for ways to improve buddy skills.

 

[Thalassamania]

...

I don't think most newbie divers don't want to be good buddies. Newbie divers have a hard time being aware of where their buddies are because they are still in such a new environment. Besides awareness of where their buddy is, they need to be aware of their own remaining air, depth, buoyancy, trim, all of which is new to them. As they become more comfortable in the new environment, it becomes possible for them to become better buddies. And in cases where a newbie is paired with a more experienced diver, the experienced diver can be a better buddy by recognizing this and taking the lead in maintaining contact by and making suggestions pre- and post-dive for ways to improve buddy skills.

I agree. Good buddy practices come from good situational awareness. Good situational awareness requires being able to deal with the minutiae of diving on a subcortical level. Current diver training does not get its recipients to this level and telling them, "always use the buddy system" is meaningless. So what do you do? Throw another piece of equipment at them that they likely will not be able to use? Offer them better training in courses that can't complete with one weekend offerings? Pretend that there's no problem? How do you fix it?

 

[TSandM]

You know, I don't have any problem with somebody slinging a 40 to give themselves redundancy on their single tank, single valve setup. I have a problem with some of the convoluted pony bottle setups I've SEEN people carrying, where the bottle is inaccessible and has no gauge on it.

But the big thing is that I have a problem with carrying a pony instead of learning and executing buddy skills. It's not that hard! As part of the briefing for my OW dives (or at the very least, the AOW dives), somebody could have gone over diver positioning and how it impacts the ability for a pair to stay together. The dive shop could have lent us some small, bright lights (and thereby perhaps made some additional sales). We could have been taught how to do a controlled descent and ascent (the times when people are probably MOST likely to lose one another in Puget Sound murk). None of this would have added that much time or expense, but it would have helped a great deal.

Oh, and BTW, I also contend that buddy skills can be learned. Perhaps the DESIRE to be a good buddy can't, but my awareness as a new diver sucked, and that's improved a TON with some diligent work.

 

[PugetSounder]

A lot of what I'm hearing is that divers don't have the time, money, or interest to put into learning how to dive in the safest manner possible. This makes me sad. Diving is a DEADLY SERIOUS activity - this isn't knitting or sewing.

When diving, you're only 1 breath away from dying a horrid and scary death. LEARNING how to dive safely like TSandM and NWGD are talking about is like wearing a seatbelt in a car... you'll never really need it EXCEPT on that day when you REALLY NEED it (then you're glad you're wearing it). OR like DAN insurance... you NEVER need it, until the day comes when you get bent and land in a series of chamber rides costing you greatly... then that $70/year looks pretty good.

I refuse to end up like the guy in the article finding myself in a bad situation without the tools to manage it... because I didn't have the time, money, or interest to prepare myself. I MADE the time and FOUND the money, and HAVE the interest in preparing myself for the day I hope never comes.

BEING prepared, and knowing the people I'm with are ALSO prepared, allows me to relax with confidence that SHOULD something unfortunate happen, we can handle it. This sense of control from the time, money, and interest I put into learning has rewarded me 10-fold in the enjoyment I get from being underwater.

 

[JeffG]

A lot of what I'm hearing is that divers don't have the time, money, or interest to put into learning how to dive in the safest manner possible. This makes me sad. Diving is a DEADLY SERIOUS activity - this isn't knitting or sewing.

When diving, you're only 1 breath away from dying a horrid and scary death.

I guess I better take up golf then.

 

[Thalassamania]

I guess I better take up golf then.

Naw ... knitting would suit you better.

 

[Teamcasa]

I was just reading an article in the latest Alert Diver magazine called "Dire Consequences". It describes a diver who got bent due to his response to a free-flowing regulator. To excerpt the article, for those who haven't read it ...
...
First error ... when this diver had a regulator failure at 100 feet, he was "unable to signal his buddy". That simply should not happen. The whole point of diving with a buddy is so that if one of you has a failure, the other is there to respond and assist in either fixing the problem or making a safe ascent. If he was unable to signal his buddy, then he didn't HAVE a buddy ... he just had another diver in the water with him at approximately the same time and location.

Sorry ... "buy a pony bottle" just doesn't cut it. DAN should know better ...

Bob is dead on in these points but let me add what I think is the real first error. No real pre-dive communication with his buddy.

So many new buddy pairs are too shy, afraid, embarrassed or proud to spend the few minutes it takes to go over the basic what if scenarios and one of the most important, what do we do if we get separated procedures.

The buying a pony suggestion does miss the point by a mile.

 

[Pistol Pete]

Great analysis, Bob!

Although I think pony bottles are still a good idea (have to be right size for the dive at hand), they are no substitute for solid diving skills and equally solid buddy briefings and practices. Let me relate a personal experience, which reinforced as no classroom or book learning could, the importance of adjusting buddy practices to the circumstances, particularly skill and visibility.

Picture this: overcast night at Les Davis Pier, Tacoma, WA; visibility 10 feet, water temp around 50 F, 2 100-or-so-dive guys (one with a 19 cf pony as well as a DIR set-up w/ a 7-foot hose primary and back-up on a neck-bungi, the other diver with standard equipment and no pony, both in drysuits), dive objective to look for and photograph rare critters coming out at night.

Now this: Having designated the non-DIR guy as lead and DIR as photographer and now being at max depth (85 fsw) while working shoulder to shoulder because of the poor viz, lead grabs DIR guy, shakes him, and signals out of air. The 7-foot hose reg comes out of mouth of DIR guy and into mouth of lead while bungi reg goes into mouth of DIR guy. Quick check on DIR guy's Aeris ai reveals 1500psi in 119 cf steel tank and safely in the green range for N-accumulation (i.e., deco/safety stop advisable but not necessary). Possibly one of the dorkiest-looking vertical ascents ever undertaken follow (but from a survival stand point smooth as silk). This is when the 7-foot hose proved its worth as ascent rates between the two were a bit yo-yo-like while monitoring ascent rates and so forth. Lead, being calm despite sucking DIR air, signals a 1-min safety stop at 40 fsw. This takes place, amazingly w/o much difficulty. Safety stop at 15 fsw takes place as well, but DIR guy terminates it at 2 min 15 sec to allow 500 psi per diver for further contingencies (diving to avoid boat traffic after surfacing, perhaps, being rather far from shore). At the surface, Aeris ai still safely in green for N-accumulation. A solemn pledge is sworn while bobbing on the waves: no way in hell are we telling our wives about this.

Safely ashore we found the culprit: as buddy was turning on his gas someone came up to shoot the breeze distracting him so he left the air barely turned on while registering full tank on his SPG. Thus, when he did his "Be Ready With A Friend" check he had plenty of pressure, but when down to half tank-pressure at 85 fsw his regulator ran dry making him think he was out of air because his SPG showed flirting with zero.

Point of story: Two divers who (perhaps without much conviction because of never having experienced actual emergencies) stayed with what they'd been taught and adjusted buddy practices to circumstances can now look back at a minor mishap and a valuable experience rather than at a serious accident. And, to re-iterate Bob's point, the pony never played (but it was right there in my sling, charged and ready).