Dacor viper tec

[tekr31]

I use the Dacor Viper tec regulator, When I acsend if I look straight up,
regulator pointed to the surface, I get no air not even a little, no matter how hard I inhale. But works great otherwise.
Is my regulator faulty?
My girlfriend uses the Dacor Viper America and did not experience the same problem.
I experienced this during our OW emergency ascend.
And regular ascends if I point my face straight at the surface.
Both reg's are brand new.
Any comments welcome.

 

[Iguana Don]

Yep, sell it.

 

[Doug2524]

You are not alone, I made the same mistake and bought my first Dacor reg. I experienced the same problem , but also at depth it took a lot of pull to get the valve to open. That caused my open water certification dive to be post-poned. Warranty sucks at Dacor, took two weeks for an e-mail responce and my LDS has had it for two weeks. The guy put a pressure guage on it and said it was fine. I told him to TAKE IT 60 FEET AND SEE HOW HE WAS FAUTIGED AFTER 10 MINUTES. I went straight to another LDS and bought an Aqua Lung Titan and completed my certification without a glitch. I have no confidence in Dacor.

 

[Former FLL Now MSP Diver]

I too had this problem that I asked in this thread. Most of the responses were helpful (gotta love this board) and it seemed that this type of behavior in varying degrees is usual.

I still took the reg back to the LDS who did tweak it a bit more. The problem is not quite as evident as it was, but I also know that it exists and it doesn't alarm me as it first did. I think having a few more dives under my belt and being more relaxed helps as well.

Marc

 

[blawler1]

You mentioned that you noticed the problem on your emergency accent? Wouldn't you not be trying to inhale on the emergency accent? Did the instructor turn your air off? Just checking.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Viper Tec has a dedicated second stage port(DFC). Its probably a long shot, but verify that the 2nd stage is in that port. I experienced a similar lack of performance in the inverted position on a Sporasub (Mares) regulator when the 2nd was positioned in the wrong port.

 

[scubafanatic]

It's pretty much accepted that "looking straight up" does somewhat reduce 2nd stage airflow......the tricky bit is trying to distinguish between the 'normal' restriction versus excessive restriction caused by either poor initial factory set-up or design flaws in technology.

I've never used the Viper, but do own a number of regulators, including a servo-valve/side exhaust Poseidon Odin, which is pretty similiar in concept to the Viper.

I LOVE my Odin! (so much so that 2 days ago I bought a 2nd Odin + Odin octo 'new-in-box' on E-bay for $356.00.....which is $50.00 less than the $410.00 such a combo goes for @ LeisurePro......and it's out-of-stock there now!)

Mainly I dive either my Odin.......or my Mares Ruby or Mares MR-16 Voltrex regs.......and love them all!

Earlier this year, after I bought my almost new Ruby on E-bay I took it to my local shop for an 'annual' ...just to be on the safe side.......but when I loaned it to my brother during his Discover Scuba class in the pool, he said his air supply shut-off completely when looking up. I took the Ruby to another local shop to confirm it was adjusted properly, they adjusted something on the 2nd stage (it was a while ago so I don't remember the details....but they made an adjustment at the point where the 2nd stage joins the hose) .....and now the Ruby breathes GREAT even looking straight up.

(The Ruby is one sweet breathe.......smooth as silk, you forget you even have a reg in your mouth!)

My Odin and MR-16 Voltrex breathe great looking straight up.......there is a slight increase in breathing resistance......but both regs still provide plenty of air in that position.

So, my experience is that regs, even with rather different design technologies (the Odin and the Ruby/Voltrex differ in major ways) all experience a reduction in performance 'looking-straight-up'......but they should continue breathing reasonably well even in that position.

My 'Ruby experience' indicates the possibility your Viper is simply mis-adjusted and can be corrected with the help of a competent dive shop.

While I've never had the misfortune of buying a 'flawed-design' reg, it's possible the Viper cannot be fixed and you will be forced to suffer with the problem....I've read many reg reviews @ Divernet.com and they've had a number of regs over the years that did as your Viper does and completely cut-off the air in certain positions........they don't address whether the regs were defective designs or just poorly adjusted.......so I stayed away from those brands/models....just to be safe.

Assuming you're under warranty, I'd take your Viper back to the shop for a proper checkout......and if you have to, arrange to 'tag-along' with your local shop during it's next OW class outing......and insist that the dive shop owner/instructor dive your reg with you alongside.......to verify it's really 'fixed'.

If they refuse to cooperate, they'll be admitting their incompetence at repairing regs.....or that they sold you a defective piece of junk.

The worst-case-scenario is that the Viper design you bought is inherently flawed and cannot be fixed but must be redesigned......but I can't address that as I've never tried/owned a Viper.

If it come to the point where you want your money back, don't want to take a chance on another Viper, I'd encourage you to look at the Poseidon Odin....I can't say enough good things about it......the bubbles shoot well off to the side you so get clear vision even while stationary........and it provides excellent airflow.....you'll never overbreathe an Odin!

Leisure Pro recently had them for only $250 -new-so it's not necessarily any more expensive than the Viper and even at full retail price my local dive shop lists the Odin @ $440.00 while the 'Viper-Metal' lists for $430.00......so if you can afford a Viper you can afford an Odin.

I'd encourage you to at least test-dive an Odin.....so
you at least know what you're missing!

Karl

 

[buff]

I considered a Dacor Viper Metal but there were too many negatives that I heard from everyone about it. The first stage primary swivel is a neat idea but then a lot of neat ideas don't work out in reality. All those Vipers have a metal grill on the side that techs have told me get bent and break quite often. The Viper second stage is light but again too many complaints overall.

I bought an Odin and I think it's the best thing going. I also have an Apeks TX50. But the Odin outbreathes the Apeks at EVERY depth-not only very deep. I have never had a problem with the Odin in shallow water or with low P.S.I.-these are the two most common complaints of this reg. The Odin does tend to freeflow if you take it out of your mouth and wave it around underwater but I tend to keep my reg. in my mouth when I'm diving so I don't really notice that "problem". The side vent of bubbles works great for photography and vision in general. The lack of downward torque on the jaw eliminates any jaw stain/pain. I love the idea of handing over my primary(hopefully it's a handover and not a grab out of mouth event) not not worrying about avoiding a position that a reg. will stop flowing in(upside down does not exist on the Odin)


With the D.I.Rs dumping their formerly beloved Odins for ScubaPros you can now get an Odin on Ebay for a song! Thanks DIR!

 

[scubafanatic]

Divernet.com just did a big comparison test of regs in March 2002.....here's the link:

http://www.divernet.com/equipment/0302regtest2.htm

Here's one important observation they made about the Viper Tec .........

"INVERTED:Either-way-up design, but stopped working on looking upwards."

Apparently this design does suffer a 'design flaw'....or at the very least is difficult to set-up/tune properly.

You may be forced to live with this limitation if you keep the Viper Tec......but like I said, if you really want a side-exhaust regulator (I'm assuming that's why you chose the Viper in the 1st place) I'd recommend you check out the Poseidon Odin......it's sensational!

Karl

 

[canuckton]

Your Viper Tec may be mal-adjusted, but it *is*a design flaw.

Thankfully, not repeated in all the Dacor regs.

There are many variables in designing second-stages, and they play against one another. Orifice/Seat size, lever length, balance, spring tension, turbulence flow, and diaphragm size and suppleness all come into play.

It is the last that is the achilles heel of the Viper Tec.

When you look up, the air inside your reg rises, pulling the extremely supple diaphragm away from the lever. When you try to breathe, you have to create a vacuum strong enough to pull the centre of the diaphragm into contact with the lever AND counteract the spring tension.

Dacor uses very soft diaphragms as a means to easier breathing. A minor adjustment can fix your problem. However, that same adjustment makes the regs prone to freeflow at the surface. Regrettably, due to the proprietary size and shape of the Dacor Viper Diaphragm, you cannot substitute a stiffer part.

But don't write off Dacor...they have had some very nice pieces of gear.

Good luck

C

 

[tekr31]

Thank you all for your input.
As always the people in this board are awsome.
I just bought the Poseidon Odin.
I really don't want a reg that needs that much tweaking and tuning like the ViperTec. I cant wait to try the Odin out this weekend. My Dacor Viper just became the most expensive back-up reg. Thanks again all.