Creation vs. Evolution

[Soggy]

Soggy, I've done a lot of searching on the subject of "before the big bang", and although some speculate that there was "nothing" as in time or space, as you stated, not all the experts agree and others say there is absolutely no way of knowing ( which I agree with so, my statement, how can we know the age of it?).

Which experts? Could you cite some sources? The general consensus is how I described it. There may be some disagreement on the fringes, but that does not represent the majority of what scientists are saying.

What's ironic though, is that if there was "nothing", as in absolutely nothing before the bang (except hydrogen.....which contradicts the "nothing" theory), that that definition is the epitomy of "Creation".

NO THERE WAS NO HYDROGEN BEFORE THE BIG BANG!!! No one knowledgeable about Big Bang Theory will disagree on that point. Hydrogen was formed during the expansion. There weren't even protons, or neutrons, or quarks before the big bang. No atoms, no electricity, no neutrons, no quarks, no time, no space, no nothing.

If you want to call *that* God's creation, I cannot argue with you. I'm confident that there is a scientific explanation, though we may not ever find it. That is where you have to believe one thing or the other. But it is certainly a long way away from a 6000 year old universe that was created as-is. I guess that's where my 'faith' is.

 

[stebzy]

Sorry pressed the wrong key.... now where was I

Oh yes... I came across this thread just by accident. I thought my opinion would be interesting to some of you. But hey if this is one of those sites that only allows you to join in as long as you agree with everyone on it, well then I'm not really interested.

But if your willing to hear another point of view, without getting all up tight and aggressive, then I do feel we can have some fun.

To be honest the theory of Evolution was one of the things that made me look for something else. I just didn't believe it. All the scientists always seemed to disagree with each other. Darwin for example disagreed with many of the other scientists of his time as they had other ideas. Not Ideas on creation but other evolutionary ideas.

Theres just way too many holes in Darwin's theory of evolution for it to be the only theory that is gospel truth. (Please excuse the punn)

Please don't think I'm attack you guys personally. I only disagree with with your opinion on this one matter. Just like I disagree with all those American Christians who think God is an American. When we all know he's English! lol.

Look forward to your replies.

Cheers

Stebzy.

 

[Soggy]

stezby,

Your opinion is fine. What you posted was not an opinion, it was garbage parading as fact. It's just plain wrong. Not in the sense that I 'disagree' with it. It is *factually* wrong.

What disagreement amongst scientists do you speak of? Evolutionary Science has a pretty good following and quite a bit of consensus. If you are going to use evolution as a reason for looking for something else, at least have your facts straight. They are not.

 

[Hank49]

NO THERE WAS NO HYDROGEN BEFORE THE BIG BANG!!!
If you want to call *that* God's creation, I cannot argue with you. I'm confident that there is a scientific explanation, though we may not ever find it. That is where you have to believe one thing or the other. But it is certainly a long way away from a 6000 year old universe that was created as-is. I guess that's where my 'faith' is.

If there was no hydrogen, it WAS created....from nothing, the ultimate "creation" since all other elements stemmed from this. But what about the helium?
I'm not going to go back to Google and site the many sites I read but they weren't from journalists. They were the scientists....and not Wiki.
Actually I think we agree on many points here. I don't believe in the 6000 year concept either. And I do believe in evolution. But concluding that we now know all about the creation of the universe, specifically pre big bang, is just as unbelievable as the Old Testament and Creation to me. There are just too many unanswered questions.

You ever hear the story of the old bull and the young bull walking through the pasture one day? And they come upon a valley and look down upon about 50 nice, young cows? And the young bull says, "WOW, let's run down there and "kiss" one of those cows...", and the old bull says, "nah, let's just walk down there and "kiss" them all".

 

[Cacia]

hahahahaha.

Soggy, I always assumed you were like...60 or so. You seem so authoritative...and a wee bit edgy for a 29 year old. (are you really 29) sorry, off topic.

I do find myself wondering what you will beleive when you are as old as Hank and I.

Life just hasn't brought you to your knees maybe?

I know you are smart and well educated. My point is that as we experience more, we have more questions, not have more answers. (In general)

 

[onfloat]

Why is it so hard to believe that evolution maybe one of God's creations?

 

[Cacia]

see....old wise one asks question.

he doesn't say "EVOLUTION IS A TOOL OF GOD!!!!!"

 

[stebzy]

So what your actually saying then soggy is that there is no God?

Or what do you believe?

Are you telling me that these laws of physics, all the magnetic fields that hold all the planets in place etc etc just happend by chance?

No I'm not saying God creation was the big bang, I'm saying God created the universe and the earth in 6 days about 4-8 thousand years ago. I don't pretend to understand it all, but I know its true.

I really don't have a problem with it. I do however have a real problem with Evolution.

Please Soggy try to keep calm I'm not just winding you up I'm being serious.

Cheers

Stebzy.

 

[onfloat]

So what your actually saying then soggy is that there is no God?

Or what do you believe?

Are you telling me that these laws of physics, all the magnetic fields that hold all the planets in place etc etc just happend by chance?

No I'm not saying God creation was the big bang, I'm saying God created the universe and the earth in 6 days about 4-8 thousand years ago. I don't pretend to understand it all, but I know its true.

I really don't have a problem with it. I do however have a real problem with Evolution.

Please Soggy try to keep calm I'm not just winding you up I'm being serious.

Cheers

Stebzy.

I think your math is a little off. See my question above. Are you saying that god is only 4-8 thousand years old? What about the rocks and skeletons that are millions of years old? How do we just throw that out the window?

 

[stebzy]

How can God have an age when he created time? He must be above time and in full control of it, and if he isn't then he isn't God.

As for things being millions of years old, go and have a good look at the subject of carbon dating, all it is not as it seems.

If you can't grasp creation then how are gonna cope with God being three completely seperate persons and yet also one person. Don't worry that one still blows my mind. An don't get me started on predestination.:11:

Surely some of the things you've seen whilst diving have made you think there has to be a god? But I s'pose your gonna tell me that some of the things you've seen people do have made you doubt his existance too?

Stebzy.