Creation vs. Evolution

[Uncle Pug]

Not a personal accusation Andy... and not to impugn your motives.

I disagree that whatever Natural Selection cannot explain is fair game for shuttling to the side with the faith based statement that: "Some things just evolve without rhyme or reason."

Now I realize that you haven't used those exact words... that is however the essence of what I am hearing.

I also fully realize that a great deal of what we observe about life cannot be explained as the result of natural selection... and I think I know why that is the case.

 

[Uncle Pug]

This is one of those cases of "just because you say it doesn't make it so." Natural selection does not have to explain every behavior.

I'm not talking about a behavior... but rather a capacity... it could even be called an attribute.

 

[Soggy]

I also fully realize that a great deal of what we observe about life cannot be explained as the result of natural selection... and I think I know why that is the case.

So, if I understand you, you are suggesting that every idea any person ever has had or will have needs to be explanable by Natural Selection, or else you believe that the theory is invalidated?

 

[H2Andy]

I disagree that whatever Natural Selection cannot explain is fair game for shuttling to the side with the faith based statement that: "Some things just evolve without rhyme or reason."

that is miles away from what i said

what i said was that there are primary as well as secondary evolutionary effects, primary effects are generally survival-related

secondary effects are things that are not survival-related but are the result of survival-related evolutionary traits

third example:

hair on our head evolved to keep the head warm and it helped survival, particularly in cold climates

we can style our hair and make it look nice.

does that mean that hair styling is an evolutionary development for surival?

I also fully realize that a great deal of what we observe about life cannot be explained as the result of natural selection...

well... yeah... natural selection has nothing to do with black holes, so black holes can't be explained by natural selection. likewise, chemical reactions between metals has nothing to do with natural selection, so good luck explaining, say, corrosion in terms of natural selection.

but give me a biological issue and you will see natural selection at work

 

[Soggy]

I'm not talking about a behavior... but rather a capacity... it could even be called an attribute.

Intelligence is the capacity. Natural Selection produced intelligence. Ideas come from intelligence. People have lots of ideas. God(s) are/is just one of those ideas. I have lots of ideas all the time. That doesn't mean that each idea was a result of some evolutionary process. They are just ideas that stem from the level of intelligence that we posses. My cat has ideas, too...I can see her thinking all the time, but those ideas are less sophisticated than "God" or building a bridge or programming a computer.

 

[Uncle Pug]

So, if I understand you, you are suggesting that every idea any person ever has had or will have needs to be explanable by Natural Selection

No... not necessarily. However I do see spirituality (for lack of a better term) as more than just an idea or even set of ideas. I see it as an inherent attribute of humankind.

I see spirituality as universally present throughout the world and overwhelming dominant in many if not most individual's.

Rather than an idea it is a capacity to have those ideas.

 

[Hank49]

No... not necessarily. However I do see spirituality (for lack of a better term) as more than just an idea or even set of ideas. I see it as an inherent attribute of humankind.

I see spirituality as universally present throughout the world and overwhelming dominant in many if not most individual's.

Rather than an idea it is a capacity to have those ideas.

Well, what's your take on this seed of an idea that you're planting here? I would guess you have an answer to the question you're asking. Lay it out, please.

 

[Uncle Pug]

They are just ideas that stem from the level of intelligence that we posses.

Soggy, do you think that spirituality is rational?

 

[Uncle Pug]

Lay it out, please.

Hank! How long have you known me? Have you ever known me to just lay it out?

 

[Soggy]

No... not necessarily. However I do see spirituality (for lack of a better term) as more than just an idea or even set of ideas. I see it as an inherent attribute of humankind.

I see spirituality as universally present throughout the world and overwhelming dominant in many if not most individual's.

Rather than an idea it is a capacity to have those ideas.

You may see it that way, but they are just ideas. Nothing more, nothing less. Whether or not those ideas are true or not we can never know, but they are just ideas, not inherent attributes. If it were inherent, Andy, Lamont, and I would all be believers, but as it is, we can't even comprehend what or why someone would believe in such a creature. That is, we are not born spiritual or with a belief in god, just as we are not born with a belief in Santa Claus. Our cultures and our experiences have ingrained those learned behaviors in us.