Creation vs. Evolution

[Soggy]

It may be a seperate area of study but without life there clearly can't be evolution. As I understand the theory somehow we got a single celled (or less) critter (or a small group of them) and everything evolved from that. Seperate field of study or not I see it as central to the issue and the theory has to hold true for the first life as well as the last.

Ok, hypothetically speaking, even if we had no idea (and we *do* have ideas) about how life began, that would be completely irrelevent and have no effect on the theory of evolution. Evolution does not dispute the existence of a deity, either.

 

[Uncle Pug]

What we recognize as religion arose as an attempt to explain that which was not understood.

This is specifically not my question. I'm not asking about religion, nor am I asking how this might appeal to the individual who wants to expain things.

I'm asking how *believing* evolved and specifically, what advantage did *believing* bestow on the proto-believers that caused them to be successful in the survival of the fittest?

people have a psychological need to know they are special, loved, worthwhile, and that they are doing "good"

That sidesteps the question by stating it as a conclusion.

So the question could be framed for you as; "Why did a psychological need to know, ect. evolve? How does having a psychological need to know confer any survival benefit?

 

[mislav]

I think, here we have a creature that can go dormant (for lack of a better term) and come out of it. It was alive, went dormant (call it dead if you want) and comes back. Take a hand full of mud or water or ooz or whatever it was and explain how to make one of those critters out of it and I will be impressed.

Yes, but the catch is that it's the same principle. This critter uses the same mechanics to recreate itself after being dead, that is used in making that first step you've asked about. Mechanics are the same, the critter is however - different.

And it's not dormant, it is dead, fully dead. That's what this is about. It wouldn't be much of a news if it simply wakes up from being dormant.

It's the next best thing that science has to offer on this planet. We can't have that primordial soup recreated and things happening again from it because we already have life here.

If the whole point of Christianity is about Jesus coming back from the dead, why not let science get some recognition for proving it's own, bacterial - Jesus?

 

[Soggy]

So the question could be framed for you as; "Why did a psychological need to know, ect. evolve? How does having a psychological need to know confer any survival benefit?

The desire to know about and explore the world around us is fundamental to our survival as humans. As animals, we are incredibly weak and could be easily killed by much smaller animals. It is only through learning about the world that we are able to survive as a species.

 

[H2Andy]

So the question could be framed for you as; "Why did a psychological need to know, ect. evolve? How does having a psychological need to know confer any survival benefit?

not everything that evolves evolved as a primary survival tool.

what evolved in us was the big brain, which does help us survive, through critical skills, as Soggy points out.

as a byproduct of the big brain, we started asking questions that didn't have anything to do directly with our survival: "do i matter? am i important? is this all there is to life?"

so we turned to the "supernatural" to provide solutions to those questions. hence spirituality.

however, spirituality as a cultural product has proven very effective over the years because it addresses something basic to thinking beings: the need to know who am I? where did i come from? where am i going?

 

[Thalassamania]

[

I don't yet see an answer to my question but perhaps my use of the word *religiousity* caused the confusion.

I'm not asking about the evolution of religion or an ordered belief system.

I'm asking specifically about what seems to be a built in predilection to spirituality. It appears in the most primitive of peoples as well as the most educated and *advanced*.

Now to restate my question... from an evolutionary point of view... what evolutionary pressure caused this spirituality to emerge, develop and become so powerful in the individual? What advantage did it provide the individual that caused it to be selected by nature?

Again, my question has nothing to do with religion or the religious beliefs themselves but rather the evolution of believing.

The evolution of behavior is not really my field. The explanations that one might speculate on range from the idea that those individuals with a hankering for spirituality cooperated better and thus were more successful to the idea that those with a hankering for spirituality had less inhibition concerning killing individuals that were outside of their kinship group and thus were more successful. One can speculate and then argue, but I lack the background to do or say much more.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I understand some of your questions, but I guess I'm just not as conserned with the answers as you are. But, unlike you, I really don't find the supernatural being explanation any more consistent or satisfying.

yes, and is the glass part full or part empty? Is it only part full because it can't ever be full or just because it isn't full yet. We both see the same glass.

 

[bwerb]

Hehehe...

Saw this comic today...made me think of this thread...enjoy

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/fun/bizarro.asp

 

[MikeFerrara]

We’re engaged in discussing a bunch of different issues here that are not particularly relevant to each other. From whence life sprung and the process of evolution are not the same discussions. The process of evolution is irrefutable.

I don't think that all aspects of evolution are refutable but I think the extent of evolution certaiinly is.

The origin of life is still open to much conjecture. While I seriously doubt that the final answer to the question of origin of life will have anything more to do with supernatural forces than world-wide animal diversity has to do with fables such as Noah and the Ark. Similarly the origin of the universe in the time-before-time and space-before-space (that stuff really boggles my mind) is still open to conjecture, but if past advances in cosmology (Copernicus, Galileo, Einstein, etc.) hold true to form, then supernatural forces will be found to have had nothing to do with that process either. But not knowing what happened during time-before-time and space-before-space, does not mean that we don’t have a really good idea of what happened after, and even some insights into what may have come before. Same for the origin of life.

Yes, true to form, we have never needed anything supernatural to explain anything that we can explain. Also true to form is the fact that we have never answered any of the really big questions. There is no form established here yet.

 

[MikeFerrara]

not everything that evolves evolved as a primary survival tool.

what evolved in us was the big brain, which does help us survive, through critical skills, as Soggy points out.

as a byproduct of the big brain, we started asking questions that didn't have anything to do directly with our survival: "do i matter? am i important? is this all there is to life?"

so we turned to the "supernatural" to provide solutions to those questions. hence spirituality.

however, spirituality as a cultural product has proven very effective over the years because it addresses something basic to thinking beings: the need to know who am I? where did i come from? where am i going?

I read that the brain of a sperm wale is 6 times the size of a persons brain and the largest brain in relation to body size is that of an ant.