Creation vs. Evolution

[lamont]

The lack of time prior to the big bang is consistent with Einstein's theory of relativity.

In General Relativity, space and time are just the 4 dimensions of a 4 dimensional manifold. Time has no definition outside of that manifold. Talking about time before the big bang is kind of like taking a balloon and asking about the part of the balloon that exists outside of the balloon...

That's relatively easy for me to picture....

What keeps me awake at night is thinking about the possible multiverse and alternative universes with different dimensions (that might be connected to ours). I can sort of picture universes with single time dimensions and 1 to N spatial dimensions... I can also sort of picture a universe with only spatial dimensions -- it would have no passage of time, it would just sort of pop into existance fully formed like a picture. I don't know how to picture a universe with two time dimensions and N spatial dimensions though... That one is difficult to wrap my head around...

 

[lamont]

Well, what if you have pure energy?

LAMONT!!!

R

I wanna know
what you're thinking
there are some things you can't hide...
I wanna know
what you're feeling
tell me what's on you mind.

*pure energy*

Here i am in silence
looking round without a clue
I find myself along again
all alone with you...
I can see behind your eyes
the things that i don't know
if you hide away from me
how can our love grow?

I wanna know
what you're thinking
there are some things you can't hide ...
I wanna know
what you're feeling
tell me what's on your mind.

I know I could break you down
but what good would it do
i could surely never know
that what you say is true..
here i am in silence
it's a game i have to play
you and i in silence
with nothing else to say..

I wanna know
what you're thinking
there are some things you can't hide
I wanna know
what you're feeling
tell me what's on your mind..

*pure energy*

I wanna know
what you're thinking
there are some things you can't hide
I wanna know
what you're feeling
tell me what's on your mind..
I wanna know..
what you'er thinking..
there are some things you can't hide..
I wanna know..
what you're feeling..
tell me what's on your mind.

 

[lamont]

i dunno think there's such a thing, and Stephen Hawkins agrees with me.

"some" particle is always involved. for example, photons in light.

(oh, ok... i agree with him)



in fact, the cutting edge of science is looking for the particles that transmit gravity (theoretically called "gravitons")

you can get to 99.999% energy, but not 100%

(at least that's how i understand it. i could be wrong. not an expert, etc. etc.)

well, photons have zero rest mass, so in that sense they are 'pure energy'

really matter and energy are unified through E=MC^2 and matter, energy and force are unified through quantum field theory

space and time are also unifed through special relativity (observers at different speeds will disagree about the axis of time and space -- "you got your space in my time!" "you got your time in my space!")

space-time and force are unified through general relativity so that the warping of space-time is just the force of gravity.

so:

space = time = force (GR)

force = mass = energy (QFT)

squinting a little bit:

space = time = force = mass = energy (TOE = Theory of Everything).

Thus, voids between superclusters of galaxies are just highly "space-time-like" while the center of a neutron star is very "mass-like". We should also be able to arrive at a geometrical description of matter where particles are just highly locally warped pieces of space...

 

[Azza]

In General Relativity, space and time are just the 4 dimensions of a 4 dimensional manifold. Time has no definition outside of that manifold. Talking about time before the big bang is kind of like taking a balloon and asking about the part of the balloon that exists outside of the balloon...

That's relatively easy for me to picture....

What keeps me awake at night is thinking about the possible multiverse and alternative universes with different dimensions (that might be connected to ours). I can sort of picture universes with single time dimensions and 1 to N spatial dimensions... I can also sort of picture a universe with only spatial dimensions -- it would have no passage of time, it would just sort of pop into existance fully formed like a picture. I don't know how to picture a universe with two time dimensions and N spatial dimensions though... That one is difficult to wrap my head around...

Dude...You ever smoked a reefer? Maybe that would help you get your head around it.....

 

[photohikedive]

That fish was darn sexy

You just jealous you didn't get to take the picture or that I was kissing the fish instead of.... ah, nevermind.

R

busted, I was actually wishing I had a full sized copy of that shot for my wallpaper

 

[photohikedive]

Now, for a little fun with relativity... if I could develop an engine big enough that it could drive my space ship with a thrust-to-mass ratio of 1 indefinitely, not counting the couple of trips around earth needed to break orbit, how much time would pass in my ship on a trip to Betelgeuse (approx 427 light years from here)? If I started my deceleration so as to arrive there at zero speed, and then made the round trip back to Earth, about how much older would I be than when I left? Approximately what year would it be when I got back?
Suppose I wanted to go to Rigel instead (about 800 light years away)...
Rick

darn it, this is the same math they used to use in Heinlein books. I knew I should have paid closer attention......

 

[AXL72]

**AXL72 hands all the scubaboaeders lil smiley face stickers to stick on their tongues, and says, "Now imagine all the more trippy ideas you can come up with about God that the human mind cannot possibly understand...and i gaurantee that everyone will claim it is the will and the word of God...just for the sake that it seemed soooooo real"**


**rolls eyes**


**blows lots of bubbles**

 

[AXL72]

ummm, Lamont :doctor: saranading us with Pure Energy :freak:

need to counter it with a song that is fitting to the topic at hand....something along the lines of the garden of eden...

:idea3:


:idhitit: Need a scuba chickie to sing a verse from Madonna's "Like it or not"

"....I'll be the garden...you be the snake.....all of my fruit is yours to take..."

ok..hopefully that biblical-like wording thought will lighten up the convo. it is getting way too deep into the sausage fest realm of things.

 

[aquaboy35]

Ok, first off, I have a problem with you saying the Earth is 6-7,000 years old. I mean come on man, let's get with it a little here. It's great you want to spark a debate, but I'll be honest, I lost not only respect for you after that comment, but I find myself wondering how in the world you could attend an institution of higher learning, to studying marine biology, with that view. Have they not taught you anything about animals? Have you never gone to the museum to see fossils of animals tens of thousands of years old, and in the case of dinosaurs, millions? Or are you one of those people, and I forget the name for it, who refuses to believe in the existence of dinosaurs? I grew up in a very scientific household as my father has his PhD. I believe in Evolution 100% and there is more proof for it than any Creation theory. No one has ever met God, and in today's society we attack and arrest, or even kill somebody who claims to be some religious savior or son of God. Remember Waco Texas. It just so happens that back in the day people were easily persuaded to believe in certain things. Natural phenomena that we know of today were seen as signs from the God's thousands of years ago instead. My question to everybody who thinks Evolution is a crock and God created us all is this: Why are there so many different religions with so many different Gods? Why do so many of these Gods have interests that conflict with one another? Why have some Gods died out over the years such as the ones of the ancient Indian tribes? Why do some Gods say the way to make it to heaven is to kill others that do not believe in him while other Gods are passive? If we are all "God's children" then why are there Holy Wars? Quite frankly, while I believe everybody is entitled to their beliefs, I feel that religion is the opiate of the masses. It eases those who are dying, those who are weak in mind and heart, those who are in need of help that they do not know how to find. While I'm not saying everybody who is religious fits into that category, a lot do and if religion truly helps those people then I am glad for them because facing something as scary as death could be horrible, but believing you are going to heaven must be a soothing thought.

 

[aquaboy35]

In General Relativity, space and time are just the 4 dimensions of a 4 dimensional manifold. Time has no definition outside of that manifold. Talking about time before the big bang is kind of like taking a balloon and asking about the part of the balloon that exists outside of the balloon...

That's relatively easy for me to picture....

What keeps me awake at night is thinking about the possible multiverse and alternative universes with different dimensions (that might be connected to ours). I can sort of picture universes with single time dimensions and 1 to N spatial dimensions... I can also sort of picture a universe with only spatial dimensions -- it would have no passage of time, it would just sort of pop into existance fully formed like a picture. I don't know how to picture a universe with two time dimensions and N spatial dimensions though... That one is difficult to wrap my head around...

finally someone who is talking about 4th dimensions and has the mentality to understand them, i wouldn't mind talking to you about some things.