Creation vs. Evolution

[MikeFerrara]

Originally Posted by MikeFerrara
Well, I don't think it's very nice or necessarily very smart business practice to base hire/fire decisions on race or gender. However, I don't think it should be regulated by the government either.

So you don't think that the government should have a role in assuring that all citizens should be assured their inalienable rights? Come on Mike, I know you better than that. Don't let yourself get painted into a corner.

These inaliable rights? From the Declaration of Independance...

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I think a business owner should be granted the right to hire or fire who he/she pleases in the interest of life liberty and the persuit of happiness...not to mention profit.

Age discrimination is very real, but a big part of that is that employers don't want to pay for someone who has actually proven that they know how to do the job, they'd rather take a risk with someone young, at half the price (or less).

Tell me about it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

It is very unfortunate that such votes forget the importance of the 1st Amendment. That kind of voting can even hurt you. Governments need to be secular, and not religiously biased, simply because you are are never going to get 6 billion people to agree on what is "god."

I agree and so did the founders of this country. Still whatever the source, we all have basic principles that we think we should live by...as did our founders.

 

[Kim]

Mike - Why do you think that it's OK for the government to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body..... but it's not OK to tell an employer what they may or may not do with their business?

That seems rather inconsistent to me.

 

[shoredivr]

I don't think it should be regulated by the government either.

But if it isn't, anyone is able to discriminate.

I think a business owner should be granted the right to hire or fire who he/she pleases in the interest of life liberty and the persuit of happiness...not to mention profit.

Hmm, but if one looks at the previous part of the quote, the focus is on equality.....

These inaliable rights? From the Declaration of Independance...
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

Age discrimination is very real, but a big part of that is that employers don't want to pay for someone who has actually proven that they know how to do the job, they'd rather take a risk with someone young, at half the price (or less).

Tell me about it.

The fact that you have felt discriminated against on the basis of age perhaps might give you empathy for those who are also discriminated against for other reasons...?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike - Why do you think that it's OK for the government to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body..... but it's not OK to tell an employer what they may or may not do with their business?

That seems rather inconsistent to me.

I don't think the government should be able to tell you/her what to do with your body but when a woman has an abortion (on her body), it kills the body of her baby.

If you believe that an unborn child (in whatever stage) is a person (and I do), then abortion is killing another person and except in the a special case of self defense or something, we generally define that as murder.


In regard to businesses, I think we (the community) have a right to not be harmed by a business. ie, we should be able to stop a business from poisoning a water supply or creating some other direct hazard so a business can't just do anything they want. But when it comes to the employees the business owner chooses to surround him/her self with, it just isn't anybody elses affair. What the business owner likes or wants is good enough for me.

What about rental properties? Maybe I rent a room in my own home or maybe it's a seperate property. Either way, I'm renting MY home and why shouldn't I be able to decide who lives in my house? Buy your own if you don't like the way I run mine.

 

[Sas]

I don't think the government should be able to tell you/her what to do with your body but when a woman has an abortion (on her body), it kills the body of her baby.

I thought you said parents should be able to raise their their kids how they want? You can't have it both ways. I think Christianity can destroy the life of a child too, but I am not going to enforce my views on you.

 

[Kim]

So why is it just the "community" for business, and the individual for abortion? If An individual is discriminated against by a business it harms them. Why shouldn't there be protections against that?

Conversely, in many cases being forced to have a baby can harm the mother, even cause her death - why is her protection worth less than the unborn child's?

 

[Sas]

In regard to businesses, I think we (the community) have a right to not be harmed by a business. ie, we should be able to stop a business from poisoning a water supply or creating some other direct hazard so a business can't just do anything they want. But when it comes to the employees the business owner chooses to surround him/her self with, it just isn't anybody elses affair. What the business owner likes or wants is good enough for me.

'Business owner'? The places that employ the majority of people are large companies that are publicly listed and owned my shareholders of males and females, and all sorts of races. I doubt they want the company engaging in discriminatory hiring practices so I think it should be banned as it is not in the interests of shareholders to hire in that way. Obviously, as a shareholder, I would never buy shares from a company that engages in discriminatory hiring but hiring is rarely transparent so I would want legal assurances I am not owning a company that is discriminating.

If you own a small business, of course you can hire who you want. I would prefer that people don't discriminate but that is not realistic for sure. You can't prove beyond a doubt that someone has been discriminatory if they only have white female employees and so on. So really, if you are a small business owner you can get away with it if you want so stop worrying about the government controlling you Mike. When it comes to *firing* somebody though, then if an employer had said 'I am firing you because you are female' then that crosses the line as it is punishing someone for something beyond their control. The employees create a lot of the profit in a company and therefore should have a level of control over their job.

 

[MikeFerrara]

But if it isn't, anyone is able to discriminate.

So what? As a business owner and home owner, I want the ability to discriminate (if you want to use that word) as I choose. I don't believe that God has granted anyone the right to work for me nor saddled me with an obligation to employ anybody except who I choose and I don't think the government should either.

Hmm, but if one looks at the previous part of the quote, the focus is on equality.....

Context is everything. Equal means "the same". We know we are not all "the same". We do all, in theory, own (is that the right word?) an equal share of our government and other public venues. Do we have equal access to roads, parks, government services...whatever? Private venues, I believe, are another matter.

The fact that you have felt discriminated against on the basis of age perhaps might give you empathy for those who are also discriminated against for other reasons...?

You don't hear me whining about it though do you? I've been on both sides of this. It isn't because an employer just doesn't like people my age. It's a business decision.
The burden is on me to convince the employer of my value. I'm the one doing the selling and if I'm not able to convince him that what I'm selling is what he needs, then I move on down the road. The employer does NOT owe me a job.

 

[AXL72]

This thread is worthless without sound effects and 3D special effects