Creation vs. Evolution

[MikeFerrara]

God could have it another way. He is all-powerful.

surely He can come up with a better way?

I suppose God can do just about anything He wants. However, the "way" that he has come up with is the best. God doesn't make mistakes.

there are those who believe He has

let me give you a scenario:

1911, boy is born in Borneo. never hears of Christianity. when he is 21 years old (living your average person's life, not too bad, not perfect) he dies in a typhoon.

never heard about Jesus.


Hell or no hell?

I just plain don't know what the scriptural answer would be. I do know that if the boy didn't know, God is aware of that. I also know that this is why the gospel is to be spread. The exact sequence of events after death for those who haven't hear...I don't know.

 

[H2Andy]

You keep saying this but I disagree. I'm not a historian but I've done quit a bit of reading on this topic on both the pro and con sides and I don't find it at all hard to believe that the New Testament books were pened by the titled authors or someone very close to them.

they were all (Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John) written long after the deaths of their purported authors.

Mike, why doesn't a single one of the Gospels mentions who wrote it? Mark doesn't say, "I Mark, wrote this Gospel," for example. nor Matthew, Luke, nor John.

by the text of the Gospels, you can't tell who wrote them. only John, a much later Gospel, contains "hints" as to who it may be, and most serious scholars agree those are later additions.

the names were attached later, to give the Gospels credence and authority.

what you call the "pro" side amounts to, "we believe it was written by Mark, and since we've always believed that, we'll keep believing that no matter what the textual and historical evidence says"

that's fine, but it's not scholarship

The exact sequence of events after death for those who haven't hear...I don't know.

well, since Jesus said, "no one comes to the father but through me" and the boy didn't hear about Jesus, one would have to conclude that he's lost for eternity, no?

as you stated, it's God's way, and that's the way God chose

otherwise, Jesus's sacrifice would be in vain if some could get to the Father without Jesus

 

[Midnight Star]

That an interesting point, but (and not defending for or against, or being sarcastic - since I understand where your coming from; when the gospels were written, timelines, etc.,.) I don't always sign mine either.

<---- omits my name.

 

[Midnight Star]

... and to add a quick addendum. For me, it's all in the content, not the author. Since all was from God to begin with, how could any one author claim ownership - God would own all.

-----

Mike.

 

[Soggy]

You keep saying this but I disagree. I'm not a historian but I've done quit a bit of reading on this topic on both the pro and con sides and I don't find it at all hard to believe that the New Testament books were pened by the titled authors or someone very close to them.

Historical evidence points otherwise.

New testament events are attested to by multiple authors and a bunch of independant eye witness accounts. There is probably more manuscript support for the New Testament than for just about any other body of ancient literature.

Where are the events attested to?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Do Buddhists not also share this experience? Have you explored different religions to determine if another one might provide more truth to you?

I don't know what Buddhists experience. Have I explored? You make it sound like shopping for a new car. I have some knowledge of a few other religions, certainly not all, but I'd put it more in the catagory of academic knowledge more than exploration.

Were you raised Christian?

I told a pretty large part of my story earlier in the thread so I'll try to be short. I was baptised Catholic as an infant. I was raised, more or less, as a non-church going Catholic. What that means is that we went to church once or twice a year and for weddings and funerals. I never actually read the Bible or really had a clue about what it really said or what the point was until a couple of years ago. What drew me to God and the bible is kind of hard to explain. I tried earlier in the thread so I won't go into it here other than to say that it was the God of the Bible who called me out of the clear blue without me looking or asking.

I never felt much of a need for a God or a religion until God called me. I suppose that if Buddha had called, I might have answered but I didn't hear anything from him. Now that He has called, I understand the need but Jesus alone fills that need completely. The only thing additional I need is to continue to learn and take to heart more of His word and will so that I can be closer to Him than I am. I have the same tendancy to swing toward my own way of doing things that the rest of you have. I'm a short Italian from Chicago. By nature, I'm prouder than proud, a natural born fighter with a huge chip on my shoulder who would take anybody on and look forward to it. If God can bring me anywhere close to having a broken spirit and broken and contrite heart, he can handle anybody. LOL

 

[Soggy]

... and to add a quick addendum. For me, it's all in the content, not the author. Since all was from God to begin with, how could any one author claim ownership - God would own all.

I could just as easily write a book and claim it is the word of god. It wouldn't be, it would be the word of man, but I could write "this is the word of god." Would you believe it? Why not?

It's a very weak argument to know something wasn't written by those who claim to have written it, yet just accept blindly that the words came from god. Since it claims to be the teachings and story of Jesus, how would someone, a century later, know what events transpired?

What about the non-canonical gospels? Those were thrown out in the middle ages. Are they not the word of god? Why not?

 

[Cacia]

Andy, I was told those people that fall through the cracks go to purgatory.

Isn't that who purgatory is for?

 

[Soggy]

I tried earlier in the thread so I won't go into it here other than to say that it was the God of the Bible who called me out of the clear blue without me looking or asking.

How do you know that it was the biblical God that called you and not Zeus or Buddha?

 

[H2Andy]

Andy, I was told those people that fall through the cracks go to purgatory.

Isn't that who purgatory is for?

well, small problem... there's no purgatory in the Bible

it first became a doctrine around 200 A.D., precisely as early Christians thought, "hey, my mom died without Jesus ... i want her to be saved ... what can i do?"

the theory that prayers could get dead people out of hell and into heaven was born.

it's a very early (and critical) question that Christianity had to address: how do we get the righteous dead out of hell, now that grace has come?

but, i posit, it is not a Biblical teaching. the Bible basically says: one way to heaven, and that is Jesus. if your name is not in the book of life, you go to the lake of fire (hell).

(it's not a coincidence I am emphasising this early fault-line with Mike)