Coupla ignorant questions

[Hugh Jass]

I've been seeing a lot of terms on these boards that weren't really discussed in my OW class. I figured I'd just go ahead and ask, and trust that I won't be embarrassed about asking these questions when I'm much more experienced.

Tech Diving: What is it? I see people call themselves tech divers, but what is that. I see it in relation to drift diving, etc.

Drift diving: Is this just "regular ol' diving" where you get taken along by the current? When it's time to come up, you do so, and they come get ya/you swim to a point?

Surface bouy/Safety Sausage: Is this something you carry with you, and then inflate when you surface? I know

Two Tank/Three Tank diving: Is this just a matter of having another tank with you, and hence, more air for longer dives? Is there some sort of switch you have to do to switch from one tank to another? How do you hook up to a two tank system?

When it comes time to buy a regulator, does the type of first stage matter in terms of hook up to a tank? Is it just personal preference? Does either DIN or Yoke fit on all tanks?

In my OW course, we dived to 60 feet. Will going beyond 60 feet just be a matter of getting experience and feeling comfortable enough to do so, or is depth a matter of having taken an advanced class? I know I can just go down deeper, and I'd feel comfortable going to a depth lower than 60 feet, but I don't know if there are issues to be aware of at much lower depths.

Anyone have any tips on helping me achieve neutral bouyancy?

Do most dive shops rent out BCs and regulators?

Is there an etiquette in informing a dive buddy/ people you are new to diving with about your lack of experience? Do more experienced divers dread having a newbie on the boat with them? I've gotten the impression that new divers use their oxygen faster than more experienced. Would everyone, or just my buddy, have to surface if I run out of air?

Anywhere I'd be diving I'd be going alone right now. Is it bad form to be a single diver, without your own buddy?


Heh. More questions than I thought I'd have when I started writing this thread. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Since you have chosen a tongue in cheek shocked2 moniker be prepared for some tongue in cheek responses shakehead.

One new member chose Antagonist as his moniker and it is hard not to give him antagonistic replies. :mooner:

 

[snowdog]

Hugh Jass, welcome to the board.
I know your OW experience was limited, sit back and have so fun here. :cool2:

 

[emoreira]

I will answer to my best knowledge.

Tech Diving: What is it? I see people call themselves tech divers, but what is that. I see it in relation to drift diving, etc.

Tech Diving relates to divers that use technics to go beyond the limits of recreational diving. This is, for example, Rebreathers, Deeper that 130 fsw, Deco diving, different gas mixtures (besides Nitrox), DIR, etc. Each one og them is a new world with new rules and gear.

Drift diving: Is this just "regular ol' diving" where you get taken along by the current? When it's time to come up, you do so, and they come get ya/you swim to a point?

Basicaly yes.

Surface bouy/Safety Sausage: Is this something you carry with you, and then inflate when you surface?

Basicaly yes.

Two Tank/Three Tank diving: Is this just a matter of having another tank with you, and hence, more air for longer dives? Is there some sort of switch you have to do to switch from one tank to another? How do you hook up to a two tank system?

This is part of the tech diving. More gas means more time under water and also means entering deconpression diving, which is beyond the limits of recreational diving.
Both tanks are conected to a manifold that supplies gas to the diver. There coudl be configurations with one regulator per tank.

When it comes time to buy a regulator, does the type of first stage matter in terms of hook up to a tank? Is it just personal preference? Does either DIN or Yoke fit on all tanks?

DIN or Yoke are different ways to attach the 1st stage regulator to the tank. The tank and regulator should fit one to each other. DIN is mostly used in Europe and Yoke is mostly used in America. If you have a DIN 1st stage regulator in America you will find difficult to rent tanks, and, on the contrary, if you have a Yoke 1st stage regulator in Europe, the same. However, there are some adaptors for most of the brands to convert from DIN to YOKE and viceversa. DIN seems to be more suitable for 300 bars tanks.

In my OW course, we dived to 60 feet. Will going beyond 60 feet just be a matter of getting experience and feeling comfortable enough to do so, or is depth a matter of having taken an advanced class? I know I can just go down deeper, and I'd feel comfortable going to a depth lower than 60 feet, but I don't know if there are issues to be aware of at much lower depths.

OWDiver is "allowed" to dive up to 60 feet. To go deeper you should get the corresponding training for deep diving, where the required skills are taught.

Anyone have any tips on helping me achieve neutral bouyancy?

Dive, dive, dive, dive, dive

Do most dive shops rent out BCs and regulators?

Yes, besides wetsuits drysuits, and miscelaneous gear.

 

[aquaregia]

DIN or Yoke are different ways to attach the 1st stage regulator to the tank. The tank and regulator should fit one to each other. DIN is mostly used in Europe and Yoke is mostly used in America. If you have a DIN 1st stage regulator in America you will find difficult to rent tanks, and, on the contrary, if you have a Yoke 1st stage regulator in Europe, the same. However, there are some adaptors for most of the brands to convert from DIN to YOKE and viceversa. DIN seems to be more suitable for 300 bars tanks.

All DIN regulators can use an adapter and be used on a yoke tank.
Some DIN tanks can use an adapter and be used by a yoke regulators.

A regulator owner can ensure that their regulator can be used on any tank by buying DIN and the yoke adapter
A regulator owner cannot ensure that the tank that they rent can be used with a yoke-only regulator

OWDiver is "allowed" to dive up to 60 feet. To go deeper you should get the corresponding training for deep diving, where the required skills are taught.

A PADI OW diver is certified to 60'. A NAUI OW diver is certified to 130'.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've been seeing a lot of terms on these boards that weren't really discussed in my OW class. I figured I'd just go ahead and ask, and trust that I won't be embarrassed about asking these questions when I'm much more experienced.

My attempt at answers below ...

Tech Diving: What is it? I see people call themselves tech divers, but what is that. I see it in relation to drift diving, etc.

Tech diving is any kind of diving where a direct ascent to the surface is either physically impossible or would represent a high risk of decompression illness. The former would be dives in caves or wrecks or other "overhead" environs where there is something preventing you from making a direct ascent. The latter would be dives that exceed your no-decompression limits and therefore "require" one or more stops at intermittent depths to allow your body to "decompress" before continuing your ascent. All of these types of dives are beyond the scope of recreational dive training.

Drift diving is not tech diving if it falls within recreational depths and time limits.

Drift diving: Is this just "regular ol' diving" where you get taken along by the current? When it's time to come up, you do so, and they come get ya/you swim to a point?

Drift diving is just "regular ol' diving" unless exceed no-deco limits, or unless you're drifting inside a cave. For the most part, drift diving is very easy ... you don't even have to kick. When you're done diving, you come up. Since both you and the boat are drifting along in the current, getting on-board is usually pretty simple.

Surface bouy/Safety Sausage: Is this something you carry with you, and then inflate when you surface? I know

Surface buoy and safety sausage are similar ... they're both portable "tubes" that you carry in your pocket and blow up to use as a signalling device. The most significant difference is in how they're designed to be inflated and used. Some are "deployable" ... meaning you can put them on a spool or reel and deploy them from depth ... often used in drift diving to mark your position for the boat. Others are only designed to be deployed once you're on the surface ... to make yourself more visible to the boat crew.

Two Tank/Three Tank diving: Is this just a matter of having another tank with you, and hence, more air for longer dives? Is there some sort of switch you have to do to switch from one tank to another? How do you hook up to a two tank system?

Two Tank/Three Tank usually describes how many dives the boat is planning to do that day ... you do one tank per dive. So what it really means is that you either purchased a two-dive or three-dive charter for the day.

When it comes time to buy a regulator, does the type of first stage matter in terms of hook up to a tank? Is it just personal preference? Does either DIN or Yoke fit on all tanks?

It depends on the type of valve on the tank. Some valves are only good for yoke regulators ... these are the cheapest, and most common types of valves. Others are only good for DIN ... these most often come on older high-pressure tanks. Nowadays most tanks come with a "convertible" valve that has an insert inside the DIN valve. These types can be used for either style of regulator ... remove the insert for DIN, or leave it in for yoke.

In my OW course, we dived to 60 feet. Will going beyond 60 feet just be a matter of getting experience and feeling comfortable enough to do so, or is depth a matter of having taken an advanced class? I know I can just go down deeper, and I'd feel comfortable going to a depth lower than 60 feet, but I don't know if there are issues to be aware of at much lower depths.

The biggest issues are air consumption and the effects of narcosis. Most new divers go through their air pretty quickly ... and the deeper you go the faster you will drain the air out of your tank. Inexperienced divers are often taken by surprise at how fast they can go through their air at deeper depths ... and the last thing you want is to run out of air underwater. The second problem is narcosis ... as you go deeper, it affects your ability to process information and it reduces your ability to react to the things you're already slow to perceive. As a result, the likelihood of allowing a small issue to turn into a bigger problem increases. New divers are often still struggling with the basics of buoyancy control, and haven't yet developed the awareness to recognize a developing problem ... and what starts out as something that might be easily tended to can grow into a problem that's beyond your ability to deal with it. At that point, the potential for panic increases ... and can possibly become an overpowering urge to get to the surface ... RIGHT NOW! You really want to avoid those situations ... which is why you were given a 60-foot limit in the first place.

Take your time, forget about depth for now ... there's plenty to see above 60 feet, and the bottom will still be there after you've had the chance to log some dives and get some additional training ... and then you'll be in a much better position to go deeper and enjoy the sights without undue stress or an unhealthy potential for trouble.

Anyone have any tips on helping me achieve neutral bouyancy?

That one's easy ... get out and dive. We all start out struggling with buoyancy ... it's like learning to ride a unicycle ... at first it seems hard, then you get a feel for it, then with practice you end up wondering why you ever thought it was hard in the first place. Your body learns from doing ...

Do most dive shops rent out BCs and regulators?

Yes.

Is there an etiquette in informing a dive buddy/ people you are new to diving with about your lack of experience? Do more experienced divers dread having a newbie on the boat with them?

It depends on the diver ... many of us more experienced divers enjoy going out with inexperienced divers and helping them progress ... it's a great way to keep the "joy" we all experience when we first learn to dive fresh in our minds.

I've gotten the impression that new divers use their oxygen faster than more experienced.

This is generally true ... although you'll also be using up the nitrogen in your tank faster than more experienced ...

Would everyone, or just my buddy, have to surface if I run out of air?

Depends on the circumstances ... some dive operations will want everyone to come up at the same time ... particularly on guided drift dives. Other operations will allow each buddy team to come up independent of the group. However, the objective is to surface BEFORE you run out of air.

Anywhere I'd be diving I'd be going alone right now. Is it bad form to be a single diver, without your own buddy?

Lots of folks do that. The biggest drawback is that you'll almost always end up with buddies you've never met before ... and that can often lead to a less than desireable outcome. Internet forums are full of horror stories of the "buddy from hell". Most times, it's not so much that they're terrible buddies or divers ... but that since the two of you have never dived together before, you don't know what to expect of each other ... and if you're both new, the potential for unpredictable behavior is almost limitless.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

Tech Diving: What is it? I see people call themselves tech divers, but what is that. I see it in relation to drift diving, etc. Although people disagree on the definition, technical diving is basically diving outside of the no-deco limits, or in overhead environments -- anywhere that a direct ascent to the surface is not possible, and you have to solve your problems where you are. Technical diving requires a different mindset, different equipment, and a lot more training.

Drift diving: Is this just "regular ol' diving" where you get taken along by the current? When it's time to come up, you do so, and they come get ya/you swim to a point? Yes, drift diving is diving with the current. Drift dives are conducted with what's called a "live boat", meaning that it is not anchored, and can come and pick up divers.

Surface bouy/Safety Sausage: Is this something you carry with you, and then inflate when you surface? I know There are two types -- one is designed only to be inflated and waved at the surface. The other can be inflated underwater and allowed to rise to the surface, acting as a marker for a boat to find divers, and providing a visual reference to divers for an ascent, where it is not possible to ascend along structure. Deploying a buoy underwater is a skill that takes a bit of practice.

Two Tank/Three Tank diving: Is this just a matter of having another tank with you, and hence, more air for longer dives? Is there some sort of switch you have to do to switch from one tank to another? How do you hook up to a two tank system? Two, or three tank dive, refers to the number of dives that will be done off a charter boat. A "two tank dive" is a day on the boat where you will do two dives, and require two tanks brought with you. These terms do not refer to double or triple tanks, where a diver wears several at one time.

When it comes time to buy a regulator, does the type of first stage matter in terms of hook up to a tank? Is it just personal preference? Does either DIN or Yoke fit on all tanks? Tank valves and regulators have to match. Some tank valves are made with a small "dougnut" in the valve. With it in place, it is a yoke valve; with it removed, it is DIN. If the tank valve is not of this type, it will be one or the other, and require the appropriate first stage. You can buy adapters to fit DIN regulators to yoke tanks; the reverse is not true. Most rental tanks in the US and Caribbean are yoke.

In my OW course, we dived to 60 feet. Will going beyond 60 feet just be a matter of getting experience and feeling comfortable enough to do so, or is depth a matter of having taken an advanced class? I know I can just go down deeper, and I'd feel comfortable going to a depth lower than 60 feet, but I don't know if there are issues to be aware of at much lower depths. This is something that should have been covered in your OW class. Deeper dives are different in a number of ways. You use gas much faster, your no deco limits are shorter, your thinking is not as sharp, and the surface is a long way off if you have a problem. Diving at 100 feet often feels NO different from diving at 30 feet . . . but it's a lot different if you run out of gas, and have to manage an ascent from that deep and keep it under control. There is a reason open water divers are encouraged to stay shallow -- it's because it takes poise, and the ability to tolerate some task-loading, to manage issues at depth.

Anyone have any tips on helping me achieve neutral bouyancy? Buoyancy control takes time. The first key is proper weighting, and there are LOTS of threads on here about that. The second key is breath control -- your lungs are a great big BCD, and if their volume is constantly varying, it will be difficult to get stable. Trim, or body attitude in the water, also plays a role, because if you are constantly kicking upward, you will have to stay negative not to rise, which means any time you stop, you'll sink. My big tip? As a new diver, stay fairly close to the bottom. You'll notice excursions in the water column much faster if you're picking up a one foot change from one foot, than if you're trying to pick up a one foot change when you're ten feet off the bottom.

Do most dive shops rent out BCs and regulators? Almost all resort operations rent gear. Local dive shops which are running classes almost always do, too.

Is there an etiquette in informing a dive buddy/ people you are new to diving with about your lack of experience? Do more experienced divers dread having a newbie on the boat with them? I've gotten the impression that new divers use their oxygen faster than more experienced. Would everyone, or just my buddy, have to surface if I run out of air? People vary in their willingness to dive with new divers. Some of us really enjoy it, and others don't. A lot of people are very happy to do shore dives with new divers, but less thrilled about paying for a charter boat day and doing very short dives. It's best, if you are very new and booking a spot by yourself on a boat, to let the dive operator know you are new when you first call them. Be prepared to pay for a DM to accompany you, if the boat folks think that might be necessary.

In some places, divers dive in groups with a guide. Operators vary in their management of this situation -- some will buddy up divers who are low on gas and send them up in pairs; others require the entire group to surface when the first diver gets low. Most experienced folks try to avoid the latter sort.

I would highly recommend that you do a bunch of reading in the New Divers subforum. A lot of your questions are shared by others, and there is a lot of good information for new divers on topics from buoyancy and trim and gas consumption, to etiquette on charter boats and finding dive buddies.

 

[soltari675]

I can try to help you out here and welcome to Scuba Board

1. Tech Diving refers to diving that requires special training. Like cave/cavern, wreck, etc.

2. Drift diving typically refers to a dive where a boat drops you into a current. You or someone in your group has a surface marker of some sort and the boat follows you down the current. When you surface, the boat comes to you to pick you up. You don't have to keep track of an anchor point and come back to it.

3. A safety sausage is a long orange/yellow or other brightly colored piece of equipment made of I think nylon? As you are surfacing, or after you surface you inflate it to get the boat's attention to where you are. Used a lot on drift dives. Great to have on you on any ocean dive in case you surface too far from the boat or get caught in a current too far away.

4. two tank dive refers to a dive where you take two tanks of air. You don't use them at once. It just means you do two dives. Refers to dive locations where you can't refill your air, like small boats or remote locations. You take with you 2 or 3 tanks of air.

5. I am not so sure about the DIN or YOKE setups. I do know they are not interchangeable. You have to get the one for your tank. I believe most tanks are Yoke but could be wrong.

6. Going beyond 60ft requires more information. More training. There are more things to consider like narcosis. Problem resolution. If you go deep you can't just run to the surface if something goes wrong. Air consumption changes, etc. So taking an advanced course and learning these things is preferred. It gives you a chance to learn the additional information, and do your first deep dives with an instructor.

7. Buoyancy comes with practice. Making sure your weight is right is the biggest factor. After that, remember the deeper you go, the more negative you will get because your wetsuit compresses and the weight of the water. The more you ascend the more positive you get because of air expansion. Lots and lots of practice. You can also take a peak buoyancy course, which I found is a really great course.

8. Yes, most I have seen have rented all equipment.

9. When I started I was just honest. I found experienced divers appreciated that more than trying to be tough and keeping it to myself. I tell my buddy if I am new to a situation or dive site. A lot of divers usually ask how long you have been diving and/or how often pretty early in the conversation. I have found most had no problems with me being a new diver, as long as I was honest and wasn't a show off. If you try to do dives beyond your experience just to prove you can do it, people will stop diving with you. It's unsafe to you and them. But if you are honest, and listen to the experience of divers who know the site, they usually love diving with you. So my experience has been.

10. Some places will charge a little more if you are alone, because they will have to provide a buddy. Usually a DM volunteers. However in popular dive spots, or if you go through a dive shop, if you mention you are alone, they can usually find another diver also alone or put you with a group at no extra charge. On boats, it's common to get paired up in what is often called "insta buddy" groups which can be great or horrible, kinda a gamble. Beware of dive shops that want to charge you ahead of time for being alone but say they may be able to find you a buddy. I have found out if you wait, they call you back and have a buddy for you. But if you pay up front, they never find a buddy. Trying to get the most money I suppose. But so far getting buddies at new places hasn't been a problem.

Hope this helps!!

 

[soltari675]

Or what they said. They type faster and have more experience than me

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

A PADI OW diver is certified to 60'. A NAUI OW diver is certified to 130'.

Not exactly ... NAUI's position is that recreational depth limits are 130 feet. But they recommend (as does PADI) that newly certified divers maintain shallower depths.

All depth limits are recommendations ... the agency isn't going to revoke your certification for exceeding them. It's just a really bad idea to go too deep until you've achieved some mastery of your basic skills and received adequate training to know what you're getting yourself into ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)