Could/should be part of training?

[olphart]

A friend was teaching an OW pool session while I was hanging around practicing skills when I had this notion. From where the student couldn't see, I signalled the instructor of my intent, and he signed OK. I swam away then turned and raced toward the student giving a frantic OOA signal. He just stared at me for a few seconds while I continued giving big eyes and signing like crazy. He finally did get the idea, fed me his octo and we ascended.
In discussion after, both the student and the instructor opined that it was a valuable experience to be presented with an unexpected "emergency" under controlled conditions. The student felt that to be able to use the skill appropriately, (though a little late I thought), made him "feel pretty darned good". He did do the rescue very well once he caught on that it was a"real" situation.

Maybe this sort of thing should be part of training. Having been through a couple of real "issues" over the years, the most interesting being a real OOA at 45', no buddy, (long ancient story), I found that experiencing a real emergency and handling it successfully does a lot toward keeping ones cool during s**tstorms.
Of course, the important thing would be that the only one not prepared for the exercise is the student, and it would be more safely done in the pool.

 

[flyin01]

I would like to see more drills like that. Most instructors just teach to the standards and don't do "Extra" drills.

 

[SteveInMD]

I tend to agree, but perhaps the schools would rather you take more advanced classes than than add material to to the OW class.

 

[Bob DBF]

I tend to agree, but perhaps the schools would rather you take more advanced classes than than add material to to the OW class.

From what I've seen, I don't believe you will find the material in advanced classes either. Perhaps in tech classes, but I wouldn't know, I pretty much gave up tech diving before the term was invented.



Bob
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That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.

 

[Scott]

In the new PADI Open Water course format the last pool session requires a 'mini dive' where a complete dive is planned and simulated. Included in that dive are events an instructor must present, one of them being OOA. Others are mask flood, reg recovery, cramp removal, failed BC inflator. There's more but I'm going from memory. One but no more than three is required by each student.
What I like to do is wait to see if buddies get separated or distracted with something else ie: pool toy or a mask clear. If so, someones going OOA. After the first OOA event most students keep a pretty good eye on buddies so the surprise can be lost.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

We routinely do this in confined water dive 3 or 4, letting the students know that is could happen any time, even during other skill demonstrations. I often have students in for a "mod6", a refresher just before their open water weekend. I do this without a pre-briefing, and it is well received by the students. I am all for it.
DivemasterDennis

 

[boulderjohn]

An unexpected OOA during confined water dives has never been ruled out, at least with PADI, and many instructors have routinely included it over the years. I first started doing it about 7 years ago. As others have noted, it is now part of the PADI OW course.

The precise scenario you described, in which you as (I assume) a non-instructor entered the class unexpectedly, worked, but it had a couple of potential problems. What if it had not worked? What if the student had fumbled the exchange, gagged, panicked, and had a serious or even fatal incident? If it was a full class for that instructor to begin with, your presence as a now active participant in the class would have counted against the instructor/student ratio, and the instructor would now be in violation of standards for having too many students/divers to supervise at the time of the incident. It would have put him at liability for the incident for allowing that to happen. Next, if you are not an instructor, you will not automatically have liability insurance to cover you for the incident, and you could potentially lose a whole lot of money.

 

[flyin01]

An unexpected OOA during confined water dives has never been ruled out, at least with PADI, and many instructors have routinely included it over the years. I first started doing it about 7 years ago. As others have noted, it is now part of the PADI OW course.

The precise scenario you described, in which you as (I assume) a non-instructor entered the class unexpectedly, worked, but it had a couple of potential problems. What if it had not worked? What if the student had fumbled the exchange, gagged, panicked, and had a serious or even fatal incident? If it was a full class for that instructor to begin with, your presence as a now active participant in the class would have counted against the instructor/student ratio, and the instructor would now be in violation of standards for having too many students/divers to supervise at the time of the incident. It would have put him at liability for the incident for allowing that to happen. Next, if you are not an instructor, you will not automatically have liability insurance to cover you for the incident, and you could potentially lose a whole lot of money.

And this is most likley why instructors just teach to the standards and don't do extras.

 

[boulderjohn]

And this is most likley why instructors just teach to the standards and don't do extras.

Yes. Before I had students swimming in buddy teams do an OOA drill unannounced, I asked a Course Director if it was acceptable. He said at that point in the training, after they had done all the required OOA exercises, it was OK. Before that, not so good. Just so you know, in the announced OOA exercises, the instructor is required to be right there with the students, ready to exercise control in case of a problem. The instructor is supposed to have his or her alternate in hand, ready to deploy it if needed.

In my summary of the problems associated with having the person who was not part of the class intervene as described in the first post, there is the problem that the diver coming in is not officially part of the class and has not signed a liability waiver. If that intervening diver has a problem, that diver can sue the instructor, and the instructor will not be protected by that waiver.

 

[nimoh]

And this is most likley why instructors just teach to the standards and don't do extras.

Instructors also have the option of pushing for changes to the standards rather than doing "extras" and potentially putting themselves at risk from a liability standpoint.

I believe the recent changes to PADI standards are a result of this.