Consumer Survey - help us serve you better!

[Nocturnal Lights]

Dear Scubaboard Members,

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Tim and I'm from Nocturnal Lights. We specialze in canister and lantern style dive lights for all kinds of divers. I would like to learn a little more about you as we'd like to think of ourselves as a "customer driven" company. If you can just take few minutes to participate in this thread I'd love to hear your comments and suggestions. This will help us service you better and build better products that suits your needs.

Here are some questions I have for you:

1. What are the factors that affect your purchasing decision when you are looking for a dive light light?

2. Are you comfortable with purchasing dive lights online? Why or why not?

3. How can we make our website better to make things more convenient for you?

4. What kind of qualities do you look for in a dive light?

5. How do you feel about a dive light that can be used as a video light?

6. When diving or shooting a video, which of these color do you prefer: Slightly yellow light, white , or blueish tint?

7. What do you like and dislike about the lights that you're currently using? (you don't have to specify the name)

8. Would a 30 day satisfaction guarantee increase your likeliness of purchasing our products?


These are just some questions that I would like to start with, I would like this to be an on going participation as we're always looking for ways to improve. I may respond to your thread for additional responses.

 

[PerroneFord]

Hello Tim,

You're in luck. I'm your demographic. I intend to purchase a dive light in the next 60- 90 days. I had not looked at our products or web page previously, but just did so when I saw this thread. I will take your survey.

1. Factors include reliability of the product, cost, proximity of service locations should something go wrong, customer service, suitability to task.

2. I would purchase a light online if I was faimilar with the product, and felt it met my needs and came with a full warranty.

3. The dealer listings should be sorted by state or area. Putting the name there with just the phone number is not helpful. It might be useful to include lumen output from each of your lights along with a price listed in the table. It would also be helpful in the product photos to include views of the inside of the light, multiple views of the lighthead, etc.

4. Durability, ease of repair if/when necessary, brightness, burn time, suitability. I notice your canister lights do not include a Goodman handle. This is an omission of a $15 part that would cause me not to purchase your product.

5. No interest

6. N/A

7. Don't have a primary light. But backup light does not offer enough light fo function in this capacity.

8. Perhaps. More helpful would be to actually lay hands on one, and test it. I have to be honest, being fairly new to diving, NOTHING has influenced my purchasing decisions as either going to my LDS and physically handling product, or me taking the initiative and going to vendor test days. In nearly all cases, these 2 things have gotten me to open my wallet.


If you want me to spend upwards of $500 on a light, particularly a canister light, you need to tell me why it's better than a Salvo, Dive Rite, Halcyon, etc. And you need to get one somewhere I can have a look at them, as I have done with other lights. Other customers may not have this requirement, but it is one of mine.

-P

Dear Scubaboard Members,

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Tim and I'm from Nocturnal Lights. We specialze in canister and lantern style dive lights for all kinds of divers. I would like to learn a little more about you as we'd like to think of ourselves as a "customer driven" company. If you can just take few minutes to participate in this thread I'd love to hear your comments and suggestions. This will help us service you better and build better products that suits your needs.
.

 

[Nocturnal Lights]

Hi Perrone Ford,

I will make some changes on the website that will address your needs. As a new player in the industry, we don't have too many distirubtion channels. I'll see if we can start off by at least getting our products to major cities in the US. Meanwhile I'm looking forward to offer the 30 day trial period, that way we can reach users that do want to try out our products. We are confident that people will appreciate our products more when they have first hand experience with it. Another thing that I haven't gotten around to is posting detailed pictures of our products. Most people agree that you can't really see the quality and constructions of our products with our existing pictures.

Something that I don't like to do is compare our products with other manufacturer's products, I'll leave that to users who have experienced both of our products for a user review. I can tell you how our products differ than other manufacturers which will help you decide which products are good for you. Our goal is to be "all products to some people" versus "all products to all people." The best things about our SL and TL lights is the durability, flexibility, and overall value. I will try to convey that from a user's perspective on our website so this doesn't turn into a sales thread.

Keep the comments comming guys!

 

[PerroneFord]

It will be good to see those changes on your webpage.

I guess the pertinent question, is what market are you after? Are you trying to compete with the likes of Princeton and UK in the underwater lighting industry? If so, it's unlikely due to pricing from what I see. Your price points seem to place you firmly in the market with Halcyon, Dive Rite, and perhapsGreen Force, etc. If that is your market, then you may want to look at marketing differently. You don't need to get to big cities for that. You need to get to a very small geographic area and make sure your product is bulletproof. Word of mouth is everything in that market.

I wish you all the best. It's nice to see competition in this market as that can only help the consumer. I may take you up on that 30 day trial offer after Christmas.

Thanks,

-P

 

[Nocturnal Lights]

Hi PerroneFord,

Thanks for the feedback. We are after the segment of the market that is being overlooked by Halcyon, Dive Rite, adn Green Force. Simply put, our products are for those who are looking to purchase dive lights that they can really count on, have sufficient burn time for their dives, and achieve extreme brightness without costing them an arm and a leg. I think all the dive light manufacturs you listed are great, especially for tech dives and cave dives that need 4+ hours of burntime but not everyone needs that. Unfortunately, a lot of consumers don't realize that there are better alternatives out there, and that's why we're here to address this problem. At the same time, we are able to offer video light systems that are significantly more affordable than what's available in the market that performs just as well or even better.

Becuase of this a few divers who were unable to buy a videolight now has a system that they can depend on. And when they're not shooting videos they can just use the lights as a canister light.

A lot of dive shops are reluctant to carry our products becuase most of the owners don't like to try new products out. The lower end dive shops don't think that they can sell lights priced at $330, and the dive shops that are carring the $1000+ lights are scared to carry our products becuase they think our product will cannibalize thier sales of the more expensive products with higher margins. What they're not realizing is the number of people who are walking out of their stores to another store or the internet for better alternatives, and it's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

 

[PerroneFord]

Well, given margins are generally 100% or so, there is a lot of wiggle room in pricing. From what I can see, the market is pretty well segmented.

You have the complete recreational lighting offerings from $25-125 or so. This includes the new generation LED and multiple LED lenses with both alkaline and rechargable power sources. From about $150-300, there is a smaller niche market where people like you, Green Force, Sartek, etc, seem to be trying to play, and now there is the Light Cannon in that realm also. These seem to be high end LEDs or 10w HID offererings. Then there are the $450-900 offerings for those who are making the commitment to their first cave light. Everything from the non-focusable HID to the 9AH focusable at about the $1k price point. We all know what plays in the $1k+ market at 18, 21, and 24 watts.

I don't know how technical lights move in other areas of the country. I've tried to pay attention to how they move and are marketed here in cave country. Cost is a factor here, but not the primary one. Local presence, commitment to the diving community, and customer service carry more weight than anything. People will put up with poor switches, fragile bulbs, etc., as long as they get good percieved value and good customer service.

I do not envy anyone trying to tap this market. It seems as though you are skirting it both by offerings and price point. So let me ask you this. If I am doing 2 60-90 minute dives per day, generally in OW or cavern, and I am going to balk at paying the $499 entry to a basic cave light, what are my options from Nocturnal? I am not interested in video. I am interested in a bulletproof light that I don't have to carry in a protected case. I want a goodman handle so I can manage my other tasks. I want a batter canister that is not unweildy.

Got anything?

 

[Nocturnal Lights]

Hi PerroneFord,

I suppose there are people who is willing to put up with poor switches and fragile bulbs, and that may be an advantage to the dive shops becuase they get to "service" the products. Anyhow, if you're looking to for a canister light, you can go for the TL50 with 1 additional battery. At 35W you can get burntimes of about 85 minutes and if you think you need mroe than that, you can use a 20w bulb which is good for 120 minutes. Our company is not offering any goodman handles right now becuase there isn't enough demand for them; however, we've had people making their own handles and helmet mounts.

 

[ae3753]

1. Quality, performance, strong reviews from other divers - especially those who use it for the same intended purpose.

2. Very comfortable with purchasing online, considering that most canister lights need to be purchased online.

3. Comparisons to named lights (if this is even legally possible). The divernet test was quite interesting (http://www.divernet.com/equipment/0404extra.shtml), since similarly rated lights don't all perform the same. I would also like to read the actual product reviews from various magazines.

4. Ruggedness. I want to be able to drop a light and know that it will not break.

5. No interest in dive light that can be used as a video light at this time.

6. White or blueish tint are preferred.

7. Pistol light - bulky, requires gripping the light. I actually would like a goodman handle as well.

8. No, I don't care for the 30 day guarantee. My concern would be on customer service and warranty issues. Those who stand by their products and are active in helping their customers (or potential) customers gets my money. Your participation on SB, and the length and detail of all your answers, makes it that much easier for me to buy a light.

For me, it's either your TL50 light or the Sea Elite 10 watt (http://diverssupplyusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=17764). Both are similarly priced.

Pros for TL50 light:
- Variety of bulb and reflector options
- Screw access to battery

Pros for Sea Elite:
- Burn time
- Strong review on SB

Thanks for listening and best of luck.
-Don

 

[waynne fowler]

1) Quality... I want to know that when I spend my money I will not regret the choice.

2) Performance... I want to know that it will do what I need it to do.

3) Dependability... The unit must have predictable performance.

4) Durability.. I don't want to have to repair it all the time.

5) Servicability.. I'd like to be able to do any repairs myself.. or many of them. I hope they are not needed but in the event that they are it needs to be designed in such a way that I can affect repairs myself when needed... Like out on a divesite.

6) Local service centers... I would rather deal with someone face to face locally in the event that there was a service issue.

7) Would not buy online unless I HAD TO HAVE a spacific product that was ONLY available in that arena. First and foremost I want to support my LDS. Second I'd rather be able to deal with people face to face. It's too easy to put on a show face on the internet.. much harder to pull off in person.

8) I personally don't care about video lighting.. but if it were adapatable to video I would see that as a great asset in relation to my next point.

9) Adaptability... Being able to expand the system to taylor it to my spacific dive requirements would be seen as an asset... i.e. being able to have a 10w HID head that could be swapped out for an 18w - 21w. possible battery expansions, the ability to go from HID to incandesant?

10) White to Blue light would be prefered

11) Goodman handle would be a must. I am a bit of a DIY'er but no I would not want to build it myself unless the light was dirt cheap.

I have a can light now that I love.. it meets all the requirements I mentioned above except that it doesn't full meet #9 though it partially does. It also doesn't fully meet #6 but the fact that I can order the parts (I have a spare everything) and do the repairs myself without voiding any warrenty is pretty darn good.

A 30 day $ back guarantee would do a lot of convincing.. It shows that you believe in your stuff so much that you believe I can dive it and will love in 30 days still. Good stuff.. I used to use this ploy to get my foot in at some jobs... "Hay, give me 2 day's.. if you don't like me after that you just send me home and you owe me nothing, if after that you like what I got hire me then!" Worked EVERY TIME!

Waynne Fowler

 

[miketsp]

I'm a bit of a DIY enthusiast so I've built a few lights to serve my needs as I saw them at the time.
When I first started doing night dives I thought I needed the biggest brightest light I could get and I went along the canister route with 50W bulb & wide angle beam.
Then I realised that it was actually pretty difficult to use a 50W wide angle bulb for signalling as even swinging it from side to side everything was like daylight. So then I started dropping the bulb power and moved to a narrow angle beam.
As I did more & more night dives I became happier with lower power bulbs. Nowadays given a choice between a 6W & a 20W light, I'd be just as happy with either.
Then I started to notice the problems with rechargeable batteries
a) they need recharging - which when doing 2 or 3 night dives during a trip is a pain
b) they don't give you much warning when they are about to run down.
c) it's almost impossible to obtain a spare battery in the case of failure during a diving trip.
Then I had an experience waiting quite a while on the surface for the boat to come and pick me up and I realized how difficult it was to estimate remaining burn time.
So even my intermediate size lights which had rechargeable cells I modified to use primary cells (non-rechargeable).

So nowadays I look for:
a) burn time - I want to go into the water knowing I've got at least 4 hours left
b) fairly narrow beam with nice smooth focus
c) spare bulb stored inside light head - in an emergency I can surface and change the bulb
d) predictable remaining burn time - ie primary cells in preference to rechargeable cells. Beam will progressively change from bright white to white to yellow before fading.