Confined Dives in Open Ocean?

[seaseadee]

Some of the details I have on this are still sketchy so I want to preface this by saying that my story is subject to change once I get more information. My 13 year old niece has started an "Open Water" certification through her school and PADI. She lives on a Caribbean Island and I'm 1000 miles away in Florida (that part won't change). I was told today that there was no pool work and these kids were put into scuba gear and taken out into the ocean. This is the part that I have serious concerns about. If this turns out to be true, is it a sanctioned practice by PADI?

 

[rsingler]

Yes, there is a specific definition of confined open water, with regard to depth and surface calmness being essentially equivalent to a pool. This would be common for the sort of island school you describe.
Perhaps ask her to share a pic of the dive site, and we can help you evaluate.

 

[rsingler]

From the PADI Instructor Manual:
"Confined water is a general term that refers to either a swimming
pool or confined open water.
Confined open water is an open water site that offers swimming-
pool-like conditions with respect to clarity, calmness, and depth.
It has both shallow water and water sufficiently deep to allow
student divers to meet all skill performance requirements.
Evaluate confined open water conditions carefully before each
dive because a site may qualify as “pool-like” on a given day under
certain conditions, but not qualify under others."

Hope this helps!

 

[Pedro Burrito]

From the latest PADI Instructor Manual:

Confined Water Dives

Confined water is a general term that refers to either a swimming pool or confined open water.

Confined open water is an open water site that offers swimming-pool-like conditions with respect to clarity, calmness, and depth. It has both shallow water and water sufficiently deep to allow student divers to meet all skill performance requirements.

Evaluate confined open water conditions carefully before each dive because a site may qualify as “pool-like” on a given day under certain conditions, but not qualify under others.

When confined water logistics aren’t ideal and the depth is too shallow to conduct all skills, introduce skills requiring water too deep in which to stand, in sequence, in shallow water. Then when you have access to confined water deep enough to meet skill performance requirements, repeat the deep-water skills, in sequence, before the associated open water dive.

 

[Pedro Burrito]

There is a Platinum Course Director, Richard Swann, in Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia that has a training island and trains hundreds of students off the shore for the confined portion of the training. I've seen the confined water training in the ocean or lake in other places too.

 

[-JD-]

Some of the details I have on this are still sketchy so I want to preface this by saying that my story is subject to change once I get more information. My 13 year old niece has started an "Open Water" certification through her school and PADI. She lives on a Caribbean Island and I'm 1000 miles away in Florida (that part won't change). I was told today that there was no pool work and these kids were put into scuba gear and taken out into the ocean. This is the part that I have serious concerns about. If this turns out to be true, is it a sanctioned practice by PADI?

I have an allergy to chlorine and was never able to learn to SCUBA since everybody local trains in pools, every one of which seemed to be (usually heavily) chlorinated. I finally did a "Resort Course" Dive in Grand Cayman with an operator (PADI) that does not do their Resort/Discovery intro part in a pool but at the beach (they load their boat on the beach for dives). They said no problem doing the "Confined Water" certification training at the beach. AH-HA! I finally had a route to getting certified and planed to do so on my next trip. (To round out the story, I stumbled into a shop that used a college pool that had just been converted to salt and my son {12} and I did our classwork & confined water locally, then did Open Water checkouts with the Cayman Op.)

So yes, "Confined Water" does not need to be in a pool, but rather in a situation where the conditions are sufficiently benign (depth, current/surge/waves, visibility, etc.) to allow the skills training to be conducted safely and effectively. Assuming those conditions are met, I'd say your niece is very lucky. Depending on circumstances, that may allow her to progress into full open water situations more linearly, instead jumping directly from an 8' pool to a boat in 40'+ of water, waves, etc.

ETA: I guess I need to learn to type faster. Pedro beat me to it.
EETA: and rsingler. Just not my day ... ;-))

 

[seaseadee]

From the latest PADI Instructor Manual:
When confined water logistics aren’t ideal and the depth is too shallow to conduct all skills, introduce skills requiring water too deep in which to stand, in sequence, in shallow water. Then when you have access to confined water deep enough to meet skill performance requirements, repeat the deep-water skills, in sequence, before the associated open water dive.

I suppose the reason I freaked out was that this is not a child who is comfortable in the ocean too deep to stand in. She also tends to be prone to panic. I felt like she would have been much better served if if she was slowly introduced the gear instead of thrown into the deep end (pun intended). I'll know more when I speak to her when she gets back from school this afternoon.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

 

[Micheal]

I suppose the reason I freaked out was that this is not a child who is comfortable in the ocean too deep to stand in. She also tends to be prone to panic. I felt like she would have been much better served if if she was slowly introduced the gear instead of thrown into the deep end (pun intended). I'll know more when I speak to her when she gets back from school this afternoon.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

How did the conversation go with your niece?

Last year, my nieces visited FL from Colorado 15 and 17 and wanted to learn to dive. I scheduled a instructor, and stayed with them through out the day. The 15yo is also prone to panic, and spent the day shooting up from the bottom of the pool. That night we talked and pulled the plug and dropped the class. If they lived on an island, I would have been more patient, but living in the mountains, it was not worth it. Maybe in a few years she will be better and we can try again, the eLearning is done. Flip side, I did not have my own kids learn till they where 17 and 20. I am not big on developing kids diving past 30 feet.

 

[seaseadee]

Ever try to get information out of a 13 year old? Oye Vei. So yes, this was done in open ocean in benign conditions (whatever the heck that means when mother nature is in charge). That being said, she seemed to handle it well and I think the not wanting to fail in front of the peers helped her to overcome her fears. Now, I'm off to post another thread to see if there is an instructor on the island willing to teach her Buoyancy, Propulsion and Trim after she's done with this course.

 

[yle]

I suppose the reason I freaked out was that this is not a child who is comfortable in the ocean too deep to stand in. She also tends to be prone to panic. .

"Prone to panic" and not comfortable in the ocean... but taking a scuba class?

Interesting.