condensation in PT020 housing

[CLA]

Hi!

After my dive yesterday I noticed condensation inside my PT-020 case. When I opened the case I noticed some water droplets inside – on the shutter release lever button, the custom button and the self-timer button (please see attached picture).

Is this something to worry about or is some condensation inside the case normal? And why were the droplets only on these buttons? Could water have entered the button o-rings? I have never used the self-timer and custom buttons underwater and I did not notice any sand or dirt on the o rings- at least not from the outside. I guess I should mention that I used a recycled silica gel pack. Could this be the reason for the condensation?

The camera still works fine and after soaking the case in distilled water, I did not notice any leaks and the gel pack seemed dry.

Do you think it’s safe to dive with the housing again? I was not planning on getting a better housing any time soon especially since the Oly 5060 has been discontinued. And if a little sea water indeed leaked into the housing, are my camera’s days numbered as well? Would it be practical to have the camera housing serviced – it’s more than a year old and I did not get insurance for my setup.

I hope someone can help soon as since I was hoping to dive again next week.

Thanks in advance.

Cathy

 

[bobf]

If condensation does occur, it will tend to collect at the points you've observed, including a glass port (if your housing has one) on an otherwise plastic housing. Someone with more scientific knowledge may offer an explanation as to why the droplets gravitate to cooler surfaces.

For condensation to occur, water must be present. How it enters the enclosed housing may vary. It may have been present in the air (humidity) the camera case was prepped in. Or you may have accidentally introduced it with the recycled dessicant pack.

To avoid trapping excess moisture, many divers recommend preparing camera rigs in an air conditioned environment. Then keep the camera out of direct sunlight if possible, wrapping in a wet towel if necessary. I use 2-3 fresh dessicant packs in my 6130.1 Ikelite housing. The ones I recommend change color when it's time to either discard or place in the microwave to rejuvenate. I also include a feminine napkin in my housing to trap any moisture that may collect at the bottom of the housing. Also try to locate your dessicant packs away from the actual heat source, the batteries! If the packs do come into contact with the battery compartment, you are in essence creating a problem, not minimizing one.

hth,
b

 

[CLA]

Phew! It’s such a relief to know that my camera and housing will be ok. For a while I thought I’d have to use my savings for a strobe to buy a new camera.

Thanks so much bobf. You were helpful as always.

 

[slowhands]

Wow, that's a lot of condensation, if that is what it was. I'm used to seeing a fog on the lens glass, but not anywhere else in my PT-015, and it goes away as the camera warms up from using the LCD screen.

Over time, excess humidity is not good for electronics, and your camera could have problems. So I would try to ensure you don't have a leak. One of our members, Gilligan, posted a really clever way to detect leaks on his PT-010 site, using UNSWEETENED purple cool aid powder. Here it is:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Checking For Leaks

If you suspect leakage at any of the controls this process should reveal it.
Dust the inside of the housing near any controls that penetrate it with dry unsweetened grape Kool-Aid, then take it down to depth void of camera. Place a soft weight (two pounds) inside the housing in a sock (to prevent any scratching if you are concerned about that) for some positive buoyancy. The Kool-Aid is white when dry. ANY moisture will immediately and permanently turn it purple. Even if the moisture evaporates or is absorbed by your desiccant pack the leak evidence is preserved.

Rinse and dry the housing well before inserting the camera. A clear housing makes it easy to detect any leaks as you can see any purple stains even before opening the housing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This was from Gilligan's excellent site: http://pt010.da-kine.info/leaks.htm

 

[bobf]

I agree with Slowhand that it would be wise to rule out the possibility of a leak. Visual inspection of o-rings and retaining clips would be a good idea. The pt 020 housing does have a track record:

http://www.digitaldiver.net/yabbse/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=7388

http://www.digitaldiver.net/yabbse/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=7830

http://www.digitaldiver.net/yabbse/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=8919

Once you've confirmed no leak exists, I'd go ahead and get those dessicant packs. Here's a link to the ones I use (no affiliation):

http://www.preservesmart.com/products.htm#SilicaGelDesiccants

 

[Warren_L]

I've had water droplets form in the inside of my PT-015 housing before, and it's usually due to a large temperature gradient when going in for a dive. This occurred when the camera was sitting inside the cabin of the boat I was diving on during a hot sunny day. The air temps were in the 85F range, and the water temps were around 43F. The sudden cooling of the housing in the colder water caused water droplets to form on the inside of the housing. To prevent this, keep the housing from heating up too much before the dive and use fresh dessicant packs.

 

[Gilligan]

A fellow diver in Bali on my last trip was having serious problems with her Canon camera in a Canon housing. I am no expert on this but I did take note that the Canon housing was very compact and had very little free space around the camera.
My Oly PT-010 has a good amount of free space around the camera.
Perhaps the heat from the camera does not exchange as quickly with the weater temp in the more compact housing.

I did load my camera in an A/C environment, however I have loaded the camera outdoors without the resulting condensation. I did experience condensation when I first used the housing without desiccant. I use the re-chargeable desiccant in my housing along with cut up pieces of a feminine mini pad to absorb any small amounts of direct moisture should that happen. I have never experienced condensation again even shooting over 100 pics on a single dive.

Desiccant will absorb condensation but not moisture. The mini pad will do vice vera.

Digital cameras emit heat while in operation and that heat has to balance out with the outside water temp. Does it make sense that the smaller the housing the more difficult it is for that heat to balance out with the outside water temp therby resulting in condensation faster?

 

[slowhands]

...... I use the re-chargeable desiccant in my housing along with cut up pieces of a feminine mini pad to absorb any small amounts of direct moisture should that happen. I have never experienced condensation again even shooting over 100 pics on a single dive.

Desiccant will absorb condensation but not moisture. The mini pad will do vice versa.

Digital cameras emit heat while in operation and that heat has to balance out with the outside water temp. Does it make sense that the smaller the housing the more difficult it is for that heat to balance out with the outside water temp therby resulting in condensation faster?

It's actually the humidity in the air that is the problem. As temperature drops inside the housing under water, the water will condense out of the air in the case. It goes back into vapor form if the camera heats up in operation, heat mainlly from the lamp on the LCD screen and the internal strobe if used.

Two posters have suggested using DRY air from your second stage to fill the case, just before sealing it. Scuba Air fill stations have dehumidifiers to remove water, so tanks don't corrode/rust. That should do the trick perfectly. The dessicants, either silica gel or absorbent pads, are good insurance.

 

[CLA]

Thanks everyone. I'll dive with the housing next week and check for leaks before putting in the camera. I also want to try Gilligan's ingenious Kool-aid moisture test (as well as the minipad absorbers) but unfortunately we don't have Kool-Aid in our local grocery. Could you suggest an alternative?

Neither could I find re-chargable desiccant packs here but I'll email the the dealers you recommended and ask if they can ship to the Philippines. In the mean time, is it OK to just heat my old desiccant packs in an oven toaster or microwave? I was thinking of doing that but was afraid the grains would melt.

Re the Kool-Aid test, how will you know if the the powder got discolored because of moisture from inside the camera rather than from a leak (if water condenses on the metal buttons anyway).

Also, if there are no leaks after diving with the housing, is it OK to load the camera in the housing during the surface interval while on the boat? Or will I just be courting trouble again?

 

[ReyeR]

It's actually both humidity in the air inside the housing and the temperature difference between the inside of the housing and outside that causes the condensation. Take at least one factor away and condensation won't occur. In housings that are constructed mainly of polycabonate the condensation will be more concentrated on those parts that cool easier (ie better heat conductors) like the glass port and metal shafts that come in contact with a cooler surrounding. However, I must admit I have never seen that much condensation on shafts so I wouldn't rule out leakage to be a cause.

Two posters have suggested using DRY air from your second stage to fill the case, just before sealing it. Scuba Air fill stations have dehumidifiers to remove water, so tanks don't corrode/rust. That should do the trick perfectly.

Blowing high pressure air in or around a housing is something I would steer clear of. My buddy and I had this device that plugs on to the inflator hose that we used to try and replace as much of the air with before closing the housing. My buddy is very careful with her housing preparation and that was the only thing different she did on the trip. Her housing flooded. We can't pin-point the cause to the high pressure air but accidently blowing sand, fibre and hair on to the o-ring, or even dislodging the o-ring completely is certainly a possibility. Besides, with my setup which survived the experience, condensation still occurred. Needless to say that device now sits somewhere in the garage....
Use silica gel which has moisture indicators mixed in it i.e. change it when it indicates the silica gel is saturated. Ever since we have started doing so we have never had a problem with condensation, even when we prepare the housing in a non air-conditioned environment. Pop it back in an oven at low heat to revive.