Complacency and the need to be on guard

[Capt. Morgan]

I believe this is the proper forum to get the best feedback from some seasoned vets.

A couple of weeks ago when I was taking my second trip to Costa Rica for some diving I met a pilot for a regional jet airline getting dinner like I was late night at the hotel bar before the early morning flight out.

We started talking because I am a new private pilot. And, he was telling me that most of the bad case scenarios occur with a pilot between 200-500 hours. And, I have read a couple of posts by a member (that I' can't think of right now, and too lazy to go look for) that has a signature to the effect of that at 50 dives he/she "thought" he/she knew all about diving and now with over a 100 dives he/she realizes how wrong he/she was thinking that at 50 dives.

Since, I fall into the 50-100 dive category I was wondering if there is a consensus about the most dangerous time for divers to get arrogant/complacent about diving like the pilot said pilots do between 200-500 hours.

The pilot I was talking to also expressed that the 200-500 range is where one does a lot of invaluable learning of having "stuff" happen that one has read about and trained for but one has to do it for real by one's self to really become a better pilot. I excpect the same is true for scuba.

I was just interested in putting that question out there to learn by some posts without having to learn the hardway. Sorry, I don't have an actual "lesson learned" to share but rather am trying to "learn a lesson".

Thanks in advance to any posts.

 

[H2Andy]

I was wondering if there is a consensus about the most dangerous time for divers to get arrogant/complacent about diving like the pilot said pilots do between 200-500 hours.

i think this is a great question... i don't know the answer, but darned if that's
going to stop me.


i would say for divers, the first 10-20 dives in ANY new enviroment are going to be
dangerous, no matter how long they have been diving. lots of OW instructors have
died in caves because of that reason.

also, given the state of diving education today, you'd be lucky to get out of OW with
anything near a good diving eduction, so your first 10-20 dives (again) are going
to be a proving ground and are probably the most dangerous.

this, of course, is just an opinon, etc. etc.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Since, I fall into the 50-100 dive category I was wondering if there is a consensus about the most dangerous time for divers to get arrogant/complacent about diving like the pilot said pilots do between 200-500 hours.

I don't remember getting arrogant or complacent in the 200 to 500 hour flying experience range, but then...the b***ards wuz shootin' at us they wuz, Cap'n...Sar.

As for diving, I teach technical diving in the form of re-breather diving, and public safety diving.

I have found that, no matter what your skill or experience level is, complacency can creep in. If you let it, it WILL bite you. Particularly in the re-breather world, there are instances where guys with really serious background and experience got cocky, treated the equipment too casually, and, sadly, they are no mas!

It stands as a warning to us all.

Cheers!

Rob Davie

 

[theskull]

I would be reluctant to put a number on it. I have seen the complacency, and have known someone who died because of it.

I also know a great number of divers whom have never shown the complacency, at any number of dives, always planning the dive, doing the buddy checks, diving the plan, and staying well within their comfort zones.

Personally, I would say it is more mind-set, training, and attitude, than it is number of dives. Quite interested to see what others chime in with, though.

theskull

 

[BigJetDriver]

Personally, I would say it is more mind-set, training, and attitude, than it is number of dives.
theskull

Exactly so! Well said!

Rob

 

[wreckchick]

If you want a number, I would say that the first 100 dives are the danger zone. Mostly because you don't know enough to know what you don't know and don't have the comfort or skills to react well if anything happens.

Obviously, it varies.

R

 

[Diver0001]

....snip....

Since, I fall into the 50-100 dive category I was wondering if there is a consensus about the most dangerous time for divers to get arrogant/complacent about diving like the pilot said pilots do between 200-500 hours.

I don't think you can put a number on it but I do see some recognisable signs that it's happening.

The divers I see around me who are at the biggest risk of complacency related incidents are

• The ones who are exploring their boundaries, making dives they're not ready for like going too deep or making small deco dives without proper gear or training

• Failing to follow protocol like buddy checks or dive-plans

• Diving with gear that hasn't been properly maintained....after all, nothing can happen, right?

The really dangerous ones are the ones who start to get a bit of an "Indiana-Jones" complex and take less experienced divers with them on their adventures....maybe to show off or something. One young teenager from the club got bent on a dive with an "Indiana-Jones" type following/trusting him into a stupid situation.....This (the macho) was the same guy I rescued less than a year before that from something he didn't even realise was happening to him, even after I explained it, which was also precipitated by not follwoing the dive-plan .....

I remember doing overly macho things when I was just starting to get the hang of it too so I'm not casting the first stone here..... For me the "nothing can happen" phase started when I had about 100 dives or so. It ended for me when I got narced out of my skull rescuing a diver on a deep wall (something that still gives me the heebiejeebies when I think about it) and then shortly after that nearly getting drowned by a student during a rescue excercise. I don't know if everyone needs a wake-up call but it sure ended my "Indiana Jones" complex in a big hurry.

R..

 

[smokey braden]

capt morgan,
welcome to this board.
may you fly and dive safe.
maybe you can share your experience with us on your last dive trip.
regards

 

[Capt. Morgan]

Thanks for welcoming me aboard the forum.

And, thanks for all the good posts.

Today, I was working out at the Y with a pilot friend of mine and he agreed with the other pilot that made the statement that 200-500 hours of p.i.c. are the most dangerous time for complacency because of the aforementioned Indiana Jones mentality.

He also said like in a previous post that one doesn't have all the skills truly developed at that point even though one may be profiecient for testing purposes. He said there is a big difference when one is expecting certain things for testing purposes where as in the real world things happen unexpectedaly.

From my own personal experience, I think it may not be the number of dives but the certification level. After, I got my AOW I thought I knew quite a lot about Scuba but with more dives after AOW I saw things like when I was diving in rough seas with 6 ft seas. Because of the seas, the DM wanted us to go in negatively bouyant and wait on the line. A diver did an improper giant stride, lost his reg, took a big gulp of seawater and bolted to the top where the boat almost landed on his head.

I realized that I didn't know what to do in that situation. And, then in Cozumel I saw a diver panic at about 120ft and didn't know what to do.

Thus, I signed up for a Rescue Diver course since I realized I didn't know as much as I thought I did.

Does PADI or DAN keep accident statistics?

I agree that we al must stay vigilint. But, I am still wondering if there are statistical significant data that would point to the time in dives, certification, or bottom time when most divers get the Indiana Jones mentality and let their guard down. My own experience (not statistically significant) would point towards certification level.

 

[mrobinson]

If you want a number, I would say that the first 100 dives are the danger zone. Mostly because you don't know enough to know what you don't know and don't have the comfort or skills to react well if anything happens.

Obviously, it varies.

R

I get scared when I see the leaders/advanced (100+ dives) divers not doing the simple buddy checks, even on themselves... Never get into the water with "those" seasoned vets!